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Bolting Sill Plate To Existing CMU's

1

123pugsy

Bronze Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
34
Location
Markham, ON
I'm planning a renovation where by I will knock down my bungalow and add a two story addition.

It's got a 10" block foundation wall. I have siding three sides and brick veneer front. I plan on taking down all 4 walls and start from scratch keeping the foundation and first floor floor joists. The sill is not currently bolted down (built in 66-67). This is a good thing as I plan to cut back the first floor joists to create a brick ledge. The bad thing about it not being bolted down is that the top course of block are hollow and also have closed tops.

Can I core a hole into the cells to fill with grout? I would also need to use Titens or Quickbolt 3's to bolt the new sill plate down as I need to slide it under the existing floor joists. I can not lift it over cast in anchors.

When grouting cells for anchors, does each cell in a block (these have 3) need to be filled?

Thanks for any answers to these questions and any other comments as well.

Pugsy
 
Hi Pugsy,

Welcome to the forum. I wasn't aware that threaded bolts ( Titens or Quickbolts) are listed for installation into grout. Are you sure you can't suspend the bolts into the cells and place the grout after the sill is in place?

I'm pretty sure the lateral wall bracing requirements are going to call for more than anchor bolts in hollow masonry, however.

Best of luck on your project!

Bill
 
Welcome to the Forum!

A call to your local building department would be in order, see what their line of thinking is. Or cut to the chase and get an engineer to evaluate it and give you a fix.
 
KZQuixote said:
Hi Pugsy,Welcome to the forum. I wasn't aware that threaded bolts ( Titens or Quickbolts) are listed for installation into grout. Are you sure you can't suspend the bolts into the cells and place the grout after the sill is in place?I'm pretty sure the lateral wall bracing requirements are going to call for more than anchor bolts in hollow masonry, however. Best of luck on your project!Bill
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Thanks for the reply Bill.I was under the impression all CMU's were grouted and not filled with concrete or mortar. I've read that the Titens can be used in CMU's, so I thought grouted CMU's would be the only choice.I did come up with an idea to suspend the threaded rods into the grout after the sill was in place but it would require quite a large hole in the sill plate with a good sized rectangular 1/4'' plate washer.View attachment 683

View attachment 683

/monthly_2013_03/572953c701e14_SILLPLATEDETAILS.JPG.5b97aa91aece0bf9d264a93c03eebfe3.JPG
 
mtlogcabin said:
Welcome to the forumContact Simpson, the D53 might be an option depending on your seismic and/or wind loads and if it is still available

Sill Plate to Foundation Connections for High Wind Resistance
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Thanks mtlogcabin.

The D53 would require pouring the grout, sliding the new sill plate in and then inserting the ties. It could be done if we worked quick enough.

Looks like a viable method.
 
fatboy said:
Welcome to the Forum!A call to your local building department would be in order, see what their line of thinking is. Or cut to the chase and get an engineer to evaluate it and give you a fix.
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Thanks for the welcome fatboy.

I have no problem checking with an engineer or the building department. I have found that "steering" people a little in the direction of what you have to work with helps if you have all your facts and options with you when you contact them.

If I'm told the only acceptable method for instance is to grout the anchor rods before dropping the sill plate on, I'm toast.

That's why I'm posting here, to determine all the options available.

I will contact an engineer and possibly the building dept as well next week.

Thanks again,

Pugsy
 
how about drilling holes and setting boltls in epoxy, the major hardware company can supply those products
 
If there is no grout, there is no steel. If there is no steel, there is no reason to anchor the sill to the occasional CMU. You need to get to the footing.
 
TheCommish said:
how about drilling holes and setting boltls in epoxy, the major hardware company can supply those products
Click to expand...
Epoxy in hollow block?

fatboy said:
again, make sure AHJ is going to be on board with that............
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Anything I use will be approved prior to and inspected afterwards as this is a major project.
 
ICE said:
If there is no grout, there is no steel. If there is no steel, there is no reason to anchor the sill to the occasional CMU. You need to get to the footing.
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Thanks ICE.

Your comment is interesting.

I've read about rebar running right through and being grouted. Would this be req'd only in cells where the anchors are or every cell in the particular block that an anchor is located or something like every 4 feet, or...?

Thanks,

Pugsy
 
123pugsy said:
Thanks ICE.Your comment is interesting.

I've read about rebar running right through and being grouted. Would this be req'd only in cells where the anchors are or every cell in the particular block that an anchor is located or something like every 4 feet, or...?

Thanks,

Pugsy
Click to expand...
Actually, an unreinforced concrete wall still requires anchor bolts in Canada. The requirement for reinforcement of concrete block wall is completely separate from the requirement for anchor bolts. As for reinforcement, it is largely dependent on the wall thickness, height of grade above basement floor and if your wall is laterally supported at the top. Your best bet is to stop by your Authority Having Jurisdiction and asking to see their copy of the Ontario Building Code.
 
tmurray said:
Actually, an unreinforced concrete wall still requires anchor bolts in Canada. The requirement for reinforcement of concrete block wall is completely separate from the requirement for anchor bolts. As for reinforcement, it is largely dependent on the wall thickness, height of grade above basement floor and if your wall is laterally supported at the top. Your best bet is to stop by your Authority Having Jurisdiction and asking to see their copy of the Ontario Building Code.
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Thanks.I will check with the AHJ.What do you mean by laterally reinforced? Reinforcement keeping them from swaying in or out? If so, I don't think so, but I haven't drilled holes across the whole wall looking for filled cores either.Does the weight of the house bearing on the foundation wall count? At present that's all that's holding the walls. No anchors. I do have a set of stairs right beside the foundation wall to the basement at present. I was wondering about this as well now that you bring it up.I attached a couple of drwgs I was working on. I know I'm ahead of myself but they can be easily corrected to requirements later. I made them to more easily communicate site conditions.View attachment 1596View attachment 1597View attachment 685

View attachment 686

EXISTING SILL PLATE AT 3 WALLS.pdf

PROPOSED WALL-SILL PLATE DETAILS AT 3 WALLS.pdf

EXISTING SILL PLATE AT 3 WALLS.pdf

PROPOSED WALL-SILL PLATE DETAILS AT 3 WALLS.pdf
 
123pugsy said:
Thanks.I will check with the AHJ.

What do you mean by laterally reinforced? Reinforcement keeping them from swaying in or out? If so, I don't think so, but I haven't drilled holes across the whole wall looking for filled cores either.

Does the weight of the house bearing on the foundation wall count? At present that's all that's holding the walls. No anchors.

I do have a set of stairs right beside the foundation wall to the basement at present. I was wondering about this as well now that you bring it up.

I attached a couple of drwgs I was working on. I know I'm ahead of myself but they can be easily corrected to requirements later. I made them to more easily communicate site conditions.

View attachment 1596View attachment 1597
Click to expand...
Laterally supported usually falls into two scenarios; if your building is slab on grade or if the floor joists are sitting directly on top of the foundation wall. not laterally supported would be foundation walls that have a wood pony wall on top below the floor joists (think split entry). From the drawings you provided it appears as though you have a wall that is laterally supported at the top.
 
fatboy said:
Excellent, should fly through permitting, keep us posted on the results!
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Will do for sure.

Thanks.

mark handler said:
WelcomeMake sure you have the engineer provide an observation report to the building department
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Thanks, but I figure that's the inspectors job. I build, he checks........

or is there something I don't know about regarding an observation report?
 
Epoxy is not in the code and requires a deputy inspector to be there when installed

City inspector does NOT normally provide this service

Check with your building department
 
mark handler said:
Epoxy is not in the code and requires a deputy inspector to be there when installedCity inspector does NOT normally provide this service

Check with your building department
Click to expand...
Thanks, will check it out.
 
The IRC does not require structural observation and under the IBC it is unlikely that one would be required for this project. Thus a structural observation report would not be required to be submitted.

Structural Observation as provided for in the IBC is not consistent with a thorough inspection of the work and definitely would not cover the installation of adhesive anchors. Think of structural 0bservation as a spot check that will hopefully find major problems but again may not. In general Structural Observations should be a part of a more extensive quality assurance program that includes detailed inspections.

Many engineers prefer not to perform inspections, which are more detailed, sometimes because of liability concerns and sometimes because they do not have the specialized skills or knowledge to perform certain inspections. There are independent inspection agencies that can provide these services.

Sometimes the Owner does not want to pay for the engineer’s involvement during construction. In such cases the Owner often gets what he pays for.

When the building department requires additional inspections by the Owner these would be considered special inspections. Special inspections are typically provided by independent inspection agencies that specialize in providing such services.

Owners are encouraged to discuss with their engineer the extent of the engineers services during construction and the need to hire additional inspectors. Some of these inspections may be beyond what is required by the building code. This is a matter of balancing the additional cost and the owners desire to avoid risk.
 
Epoxy is not a perceptive element. If you deviate from the prescriptive elements of the code, ibc kicks in.

As stated before check with your building department and with your engineer
 
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