Building Code Considerations for a Day Care Center in Alpharetta?

[mathewszach]

Hey all,

Has anyone here dealt with the building code side of opening or renovating a day care center in Alpharetta? I’ve been helping a friend look into converting an existing commercial space into one, and wow… there’s a lot more to it than I expected. Between egress requirements, bathroom ratios, and the outdoor play area rules, it feels like a maze trying to make sure everything lines up with both the local building code and state childcare regulations.

We’re still figuring out the fire safety and occupancy requirements, apparently, daycares fall under a different occupancy classification than typical offices. I found a Georgia DCA document that explains part of it, but it’s still a little fuzzy when it comes to renovations vs. new construction.

If anyone here has gone through the process (especially in Fulton County or Alpharetta), how strict were the inspectors on things like fencing, accessibility, or sprinklers? Any tips for smoothing the approval process?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

As a building official I have reviewed several day care centers, most in existing buildings. Yes, there are a lot of regulations. Yes, child day care is a different occupancy classification than offices. Child day care centers are a subset of Group E - Educational. Offices are Group B - Business.

If you aren't clear on what the regulations require, I suggest that your friend hire an architect who is familiar with the code requirements. It's not rocket science, but being familiar with code terminology and simply navigating the codes is a big help.

Tips for smoothing the approval process? Be sure the plans have everything in compliance with code and regulatory requirements before submitting.

 

[arwat23]

If you aren't clear on what the regulations require, I suggest that your friend hire an architect who is familiar with the code requirements. It's not rocket science, but being familiar with code terminology and simply navigating the codes is a big help.

I second this. I've seen countless tenants and building owners try to do things themselves when they don't really understand what they're suppose to be doing. Code, especially life-safety and accessibility (ADA), can be very difficult for someone new to this to navigate. At least 20% of the projects I work on come to us only after the client have gotten their application they prepared themselves rejected by the city/county multiple times over the course of months.

That's not to say you can't do it yourself. But hiring someone local who's worked with the jurisdiction and, ideally, has worked on similar projects, would likely speed up the process considerably.

If anyone here has gone through the process (especially in Fulton County or Alpharetta), how strict were the inspectors on things like fencing, accessibility, or sprinklers? Any tips for smoothing the approval process?

I've never worked in that area, but you should know that no inspector is perfect. There's a non-zero chance that something, at some point, will be missed. Probably something minor if anything. That said, the jurisdiction usually can't approve something that's not in compliance. For example, if you are required to have an accessible toilet room, or required to have three exits instead of two, and you don't, it doesn't matter if the inspector approves the non-compliant construction. If the jurisdiction finds out later, you'll need to get it fixed. If you get sued, AHJ approval doesn't shield you.

I've had more than a few clients build something not to code (not following my drawings). Inspector approved the construction, all seemed fine. Then, months to years later, they get sued by someone (usually for accessibility) or the non-compliant element get's reported to the city, then they come down with fees and demand that you fix the issue.

It doesn't matter how strict the city is. It's usually best to do things right the first time than deal with the headache later.

If you want the approval process to go smoothly, by nice to the inspector and make sure everything is correct before you schedule an inspection. Talk to the city/county before you submit an application. Building Officials and other staff are usually more than happy to discuss what's required and provide some advice.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I've never worked in that area, but you should know that no inspector is perfect. There's a non-zero chance that something, at some point, will be missed. Probably something minor if anything. That said, the jurisdiction usually can't approve something that's not in compliance. For example, if you are required to have an accessible toilet room, or required to have three exits instead of two, and you don't, it doesn't matter if the inspector approves the non-compliant construction. If the jurisdiction finds out later, you'll need to get it fixed. If you get sued, AHJ approval doesn't shield you.

I've had more than a few clients build something not to code (not following my drawings). Inspector approved the construction, all seemed fine. Then, months to years later, they get sued by someone (usually for accessibility) or the non-compliant element get's reported to the city, then they come down with fees and demand that you fix the issue.

It doesn't matter how stict the city is. It's usually best to do things right the first time than deal with the headache later.

Last year we had a permit application to alter part of the second floor of a 2-story office condo building for a medical practitioner to expand his office space into an adjacent suite. The plan submitted didn't show egress from the second floor, so I went to the building to see what the existing conditions were. What I found was that the exit stairs (both of them) didn't comply with the current code, and also didn't comply with the code under which the building was built in 1988.

To be sure, I called in my fire marshal, who in turn called in the state fire marshal. Everyone agreed that the building was in violation, and had been in violation since the day it was first occupied (36 years). Remediation was required before we could approve the medical office alterations and it held things up for months because the doctor was using an unlicensed building designer who was more interested in arguing than in actually addressing the code violations.

Doing things right is important, because nobody can predict when a violation will be discovered. And, as one of our former state building inspectors used to remind us in classes, "A violation is always a violation." Violations don't get grandfathered if nobody spots them for 'X' years.

 

[RLGA]

I can't speak for every jurisdiction, but if the code requires it and you do not provide it, they will likely find it and require you to provide it before issuing a certificate of occupancy. There are exceptions, though, so read everything. I am not aware of what exceptions state laws may permit, but the building code allows for the submission of proposals for alternative materials and methods. Feasibility may be an issue in some cases. Regardless, it is best to be up-front with the jurisdiction and discuss your concerns rather than trying to "pull the wool over their eyes" and hope you don't get caught. They are likely to be less forgiving after the fact than if you had discussed alternatives with them beforehand.

Hiring an architect with code experience or a code consultant can help you through the process.

 

[Joe.B]

 

[mathewszach]

As a building official I have reviewed several day care centers, most in existing buildings. Yes, there are a lot of regulations. Yes, child day care is a different occupancy classification than offices. Child day care centers are a subset of Group E - Educational. Offices are Group B - Business.

If you aren't clear on what the regulations require, I suggest that your friend hire an architect who is familiar with the code requirements. It's not rocket science, but being familiar with code terminology and simply navigating the codes is a big help.

Tips for smoothing the approval process? Be sure the plans have everything in compliance with code and regulatory requirements before submitting.

@Yankee Chronicler Thanks for the insight!
I didn’t realize day care centers were classified under Group E, which clears up a lot. Totally agree about getting an architect involved; those code details can get overwhelming fast. Do you find local officials are stricter with day care approvals compared to other occupancies?

 

[mathewszach]

I second this. I've seen countless tenants and building owners try to do things themselves when they don't really understand what they're suppose to be doing. Code, especially life-safety and accessibility (ADA), can be very difficult for someone new to this to navigate. At least 20% of the projects I work on come to us only after the client have gotten their application they prepared themselves rejected by the city/county multiple times over the course of months.

That's not to say you can't do it yourself. But hiring someone local who's worked with the jurisdiction and, ideally, has worked on similar projects, would likely speed up the process considerably.


I've never worked in that area, but you should know that no inspector is perfect. There's a non-zero chance that something, at some point, will be missed. Probably something minor if anything. That said, the jurisdiction usually can't approve something that's not in compliance. For example, if you are required to have an accessible toilet room, or required to have three exits instead of two, and you don't, it doesn't matter if the inspector approves the non-compliant construction. If the jurisdiction finds out later, you'll need to get it fixed. If you get sued, AHJ approval doesn't shield you.

I've had more than a few clients build something not to code (not following my drawings). Inspector approved the construction, all seemed fine. Then, months to years later, they get sued by someone (usually for accessibility) or the non-compliant element get's reported to the city, then they come down with fees and demand that you fix the issue.

It doesn't matter how stict the city is. It's usually best to do things right the first time than deal with the headache later.

If you want the approval process to go smoothly, by nice to the inspector and make sure everything is correct before you schedule an inspection. Talk to the city/county before you submit an application. Building Officials and other staff are usually more than happy to discuss what's required and provide some advice.

@arwat23 That’s really good advice, thanks for sharing your experience. I didn’t realize approved work could still come back to bite you later if it’s not fully compliant. Definitely makes sense to get everything right from the start and stay on good terms with the inspector.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

@Yankee Chronicler Thanks for the insight!
I didn’t realize day care centers were classified under Group E, which clears up a lot. Totally agree about getting an architect involved; those code details can get overwhelming fast. Do you find local officials are stricter with day care approvals compared to other occupancies?

In general (based on knowing a few code officials in my state and neighboring states) -- yes.

We're dealing with children -- young children, who probably aren't ready yet to get themselves out safely in case of a fire or other emergency. Based on my limited exposure to code officials in my corner of the country, we tend to be extra concerned where young kids are involved.