Where would I find an expert on building codes to evaluate a current situation of alleged code violation? I am not looking for trial testimony (yet), but just an evaluation of an existing condition. Basically, I want to know, if from the photos I provide..... is there a code violation. I would expect to pay for this service. I am being beaten down so much at the local bldg. code level that before we move forward, spending our retirement funds to hire an attorney, trial experts, etc. I would like an expert in the field to evaluate the situation. Credentials, lots of experience......does anyone know of such a person? Is this a good move? I guess I need someone to help me grow some more backbone. Thanks for any assistance....
-
Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades
Building Code Expert
- Thread starter oldred
- Start date
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Hard to do from photos
Contact the local AIA ask for a forensic Architect or Engineer
Or local chapter of the ICC
Contact the local AIA ask for a forensic Architect or Engineer
Or local chapter of the ICC
Last edited by a moderator:
mark handler
SAWHORSE
"....in this instance the code..." in what instance, photos?JPohling said:
No always, obvious errors maybe, so much is missed without depth perception, dimensions, etcetera
And many times what one person focusing on may not be the real violation.
Building departments maynot have the staff or the time to personally investigate. I will send my guys to investigate health and safety code violations, I will send code enforcement for other issues.
Last edited by a moderator:
View attachment 2285View attachment 2286 These are the pictures that have been referred to.....There was no hand railing and light. Both were installed after the accident. The local code department is saying that there is no code violation now, or was there one in the past. They say that this stairway is part of the sidewalk and therefore not subject to building codes. I've stated our position to them that it is the exit discharge, but they continue to say it's a sidewalk. Any other questions please let me know Mr. Handler. Thank you
View attachment 1011
View attachment 1012
View attachment 1011
View attachment 1012
/monthly_2014_02/572953d1b5b67_Picture10.jpg.d7757474837893005eb2228b68e7655e.jpg
/monthly_2014_02/572953d1b973b_Picture37.jpg.d8f976425336f2183c1961740e17f8e7.jpg
View attachment 1011
View attachment 1012
View attachment 1011
View attachment 1012
/monthly_2014_02/572953d1b5b67_Picture10.jpg.d7757474837893005eb2228b68e7655e.jpg
/monthly_2014_02/572953d1b973b_Picture37.jpg.d8f976425336f2183c1961740e17f8e7.jpg
mark handler
SAWHORSE
What year was it built?
Is it a sfd or mfa product?
Under what code? Code cycle?
Was it permitted?
Were there multiple handrails at the time it was constructed?
If a mfa, was it built prior to the1990s?
Did it fall under the state's or fed's fair housing guidelines?
Is it a sfd or mfa product?
Under what code? Code cycle?
Was it permitted?
Were there multiple handrails at the time it was constructed?
If a mfa, was it built prior to the1990s?
Did it fall under the state's or fed's fair housing guidelines?
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
= + = + =
oldred,
sfd = single family dwelling,
mfa = multi-family [ type ] dwelling
FWIW, hiring a forensic architect or engineer will be expensive if
you decide to pursue that direction......"IF" you DO pursue it, you
may want to select one who is also CASp certified. [ CASp = California
Accessibility Specialist certified ], and has experience & other
credentials in this area........I know of a firm based in Birmingham, AL
that I can provide you their information.......Send me a PM if you're
interested.......I'm not sure of what all they do, but they DO perform
Accessibility assessments.
Also, ...the Building Inspector [ in your application ] DOES NOT have
the final word on this matter.......Unfortunately, you will have to go
to court to have a judge determine "the last word".
+ = + = +
oldred,
sfd = single family dwelling,
mfa = multi-family [ type ] dwelling
FWIW, hiring a forensic architect or engineer will be expensive if
you decide to pursue that direction......"IF" you DO pursue it, you
may want to select one who is also CASp certified. [ CASp = California
Accessibility Specialist certified ], and has experience & other
credentials in this area........I know of a firm based in Birmingham, AL
that I can provide you their information.......Send me a PM if you're
interested.......I'm not sure of what all they do, but they DO perform
Accessibility assessments.
Also, ...the Building Inspector [ in your application ] DOES NOT have
the final word on this matter.......Unfortunately, you will have to go
to court to have a judge determine "the last word".
+ = + = +
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Being that oldred is in Virginia, I doubt a CAS will helpnorth star said:
Mr. Handler, Regrettably I do not have the answers to all your questions. It was built in 1976. There were no handrails at the time of construction, and no lighting. City Hall maintains that the paperwork for this building and all other buildings on streets starting with the letter A, up to and through the letter M, were accidently destroyed. Our street starts with the letter K. I am sure that the 1975 BOCA codes applied. It is an apartment in a complex of 22 buildings. All other 21 buildings have lights at the exit discharge since the complex was built. There are two other apartments with stairs and they have had handrails since the building was completed. This apartment sits at the very end of the complex, the last building. I can think of no other reason why it is the only building w/o handrails and lights. The code/inspection department will not say that a code violation exits and base their findings on the fact that at our apartment building the stairs are not a part of the means of egress. They steadfastly maintain that the stairs are part of the sidewalk and not the exit discharge. My husband, 72 years of age, fell down the stairs one night. It was dark and he could not see the stairs and slipped. The insurance carrier is refusing to reimburse the cost of his teeth or his glasses. He also sustained a level 3 concussion resulting now in cognitive brain impairment. I have asked the code dept. for a meeting to present our information. They responded yes, but they would not change their minds. We declined such a meeting. I had hoped to have a code violation so that we could then negotiate a settlement, but w/o a code violation the insurance carrier will not even talk to us. Our landlord is a major landowner in the city. Not sure how we will get the money for an attorney but now believe that is the course we will probably have to go. Thank you for your questions. Wish I had all the answers.
Not a stair expert , but I think you need to focus on the stairs
And that i believe others have stated Stairs are required to have handrails no matter where they are at.
The city is suppose to know what building code was adopted which years
The city is suppose to have copies if old codes enforced.
And that i believe others have stated Stairs are required to have handrails no matter where they are at.
The city is suppose to know what building code was adopted which years
The city is suppose to have copies if old codes enforced.
Thank you North Star. I too am beginning to think we will have to hire an attorney. I guess I just wanted someone else to say yes, it's a code violation. City Hall did a job on me yesterday and I was questioning myself afterwards. Accessibility is not the issue. It will be eventually, but not at this time. We can do seven stairs with a handrail. Our son found this apartment for us. We were out of state and took it sight unseen. He, son, knows of the neurological difficulties I have but at age 27, well his mind is often elsewhere. I seldom went out and my husband did all the outside stuff.....until the fall. Yes, you are correct, we will probably have to go to court.
Frank
Registered User
The question of if this is a Virginia Construction Code Violation is one of scoping, not of the technical provisions of the code.
From the Virginia code.
"102.2 Scope. This section establishes the scope of the USBC in accordance with Section 36-98 of the Code of Virginia. TheUSBC shall supersede the building codes and regulations of the counties, municipalities and other political subdivisions and state agencies. This code also shall supersede the provisions of local ordinances applicable to single-family residential
construction that (i) regulate dwelling foundations or crawl spaces, (ii) require the use of specific building materials or
finishes in construction, or (iii) require minimum surface area or numbers of windows; however, this code shall not
supersede proffered conditions accepted as a part of a rezoning application, conditions imposed upon the grant of special
exceptions, special or conditional use permits or variances, conditions imposed upon a clustering of single-family homes
and preservation of open space development through standards, conditions, and criteria established by a locality pursuant to
subdivision 8 of Section 15.2-2242 of the Code of Virginia or subdivision A 12 of Section 15.2-2286 of the Code of
Virginia, or land use requirements in airport or highway overlay districts, or historic districts created pursuant to Section
15.2-2306 of the Code of Virginia, or local flood plain regulations adopted as a condition of participation in the National
Flood Insurance Program.
Note: Requirements relating to functional design are contained in Section 103.11 of this code.
102.2.1 Invalidity of provisions. To the extent that any provisions of this code are in conflict with Chapter 6 (Section
36-97 et seq.) of Title 36 of the Code of Virginia or in conflict with the scope of the USBC, those provisions are
considered to be invalid to the extent of such conflict.
102.3 Exemptions. The following are exempt from this code:
...
3. Parking lots and sidewalks, which are not part of an accessible route.
...
6. Farm buildings and structures, except for a building or a portion of a building located on a farm that is operated as
a restaurant as defined in Section 35.1-1 of the Code of Virginia and licensed as such by the Virginia Board of
Health pursuant to Chapter 2 (Section 35.1-11 et seq.) of Title 35.1 of the Code of Virginia. However, farm
buildings and structures lying within a flood plain or in a mudslide-prone area shall be subject to flood-proofing
regulations or mudslide regulations, as applicable."
Given the wording "which are not part of an accessible route" would leave sidewalks that are part of the means of exit discharge outside the scope of the building code. On newer buildings with required accessible routes much of the means of egress is typically included, but this is obviously not part of an accessible route.
The local officials saying that it is not a code violation is not an endorsement that it is/was a safe situation.
A number of years ago we had an abandoned silo in a soybean field collapse while children from the adjacent subdivision were playing in/around it. One child was killed by the tons of clay tiles falling on him. We could not order the adjacent similarly deteriorated silo removed, because there was no code violation because these farm buildings were exempt from the code.
The fact that it is not subject to the building code, does not relieve the landlord of the duty to provide a safe premises.
Where you need to be looking is for a Personal Injury Attorney willing to take the case on a contingency basis, he will have access to the necessary experts to say if it was or was not a safe condition.
It is also probably time to start considering moving to a more accessible complex.
It is a difficult situation
From the Virginia code.
"102.2 Scope. This section establishes the scope of the USBC in accordance with Section 36-98 of the Code of Virginia. TheUSBC shall supersede the building codes and regulations of the counties, municipalities and other political subdivisions and state agencies. This code also shall supersede the provisions of local ordinances applicable to single-family residential
construction that (i) regulate dwelling foundations or crawl spaces, (ii) require the use of specific building materials or
finishes in construction, or (iii) require minimum surface area or numbers of windows; however, this code shall not
supersede proffered conditions accepted as a part of a rezoning application, conditions imposed upon the grant of special
exceptions, special or conditional use permits or variances, conditions imposed upon a clustering of single-family homes
and preservation of open space development through standards, conditions, and criteria established by a locality pursuant to
subdivision 8 of Section 15.2-2242 of the Code of Virginia or subdivision A 12 of Section 15.2-2286 of the Code of
Virginia, or land use requirements in airport or highway overlay districts, or historic districts created pursuant to Section
15.2-2306 of the Code of Virginia, or local flood plain regulations adopted as a condition of participation in the National
Flood Insurance Program.
Note: Requirements relating to functional design are contained in Section 103.11 of this code.
102.2.1 Invalidity of provisions. To the extent that any provisions of this code are in conflict with Chapter 6 (Section
36-97 et seq.) of Title 36 of the Code of Virginia or in conflict with the scope of the USBC, those provisions are
considered to be invalid to the extent of such conflict.
102.3 Exemptions. The following are exempt from this code:
...
3. Parking lots and sidewalks, which are not part of an accessible route.
...
6. Farm buildings and structures, except for a building or a portion of a building located on a farm that is operated as
a restaurant as defined in Section 35.1-1 of the Code of Virginia and licensed as such by the Virginia Board of
Health pursuant to Chapter 2 (Section 35.1-11 et seq.) of Title 35.1 of the Code of Virginia. However, farm
buildings and structures lying within a flood plain or in a mudslide-prone area shall be subject to flood-proofing
regulations or mudslide regulations, as applicable."
Given the wording "which are not part of an accessible route" would leave sidewalks that are part of the means of exit discharge outside the scope of the building code. On newer buildings with required accessible routes much of the means of egress is typically included, but this is obviously not part of an accessible route.
The local officials saying that it is not a code violation is not an endorsement that it is/was a safe situation.
A number of years ago we had an abandoned silo in a soybean field collapse while children from the adjacent subdivision were playing in/around it. One child was killed by the tons of clay tiles falling on him. We could not order the adjacent similarly deteriorated silo removed, because there was no code violation because these farm buildings were exempt from the code.
The fact that it is not subject to the building code, does not relieve the landlord of the duty to provide a safe premises.
Where you need to be looking is for a Personal Injury Attorney willing to take the case on a contingency basis, he will have access to the necessary experts to say if it was or was not a safe condition.
It is also probably time to start considering moving to a more accessible complex.
It is a difficult situation
Francis Vineyard
Registered User
Review carefully to see if it applies; http://www.oag.state.va.us/Consumer%20Protection/Consumer_2012/Residential_Landlord_Tenant_Issues.pdf
Francis Vineyard, it does not seem to apply except for eviction. We have always been good tenants, pay rent on time, no complaints against us, but this issue may convince the landlord that he wants us gone. Also, reporting code violations to the city has gotten us nowhere. I do, however, like the referrals for legal assistance. That section will come in handy. Thank you.
conarb
Registered User
Oldred:
I do that here in California, go to your local law library and ask the librarian for a copy of the local bar journal (a glossy magazine), in there you will see all kinds of advertisements placed by expert witness firms, when you call them to select the right firm ask if they have access to older codes. Some law libraries have copies of older codes too, so ask the law librarian where the building codes are located. I don't know about Virginia, but here every county has a free law library as well as every law school, these resources are free to all and I think you'll find the law librarians nice and very helpful finding things, they are barred from interpreting the law or giving legal advice.
I do that here in California, go to your local law library and ask the librarian for a copy of the local bar journal (a glossy magazine), in there you will see all kinds of advertisements placed by expert witness firms, when you call them to select the right firm ask if they have access to older codes. Some law libraries have copies of older codes too, so ask the law librarian where the building codes are located. I don't know about Virginia, but here every county has a free law library as well as every law school, these resources are free to all and I think you'll find the law librarians nice and very helpful finding things, they are barred from interpreting the law or giving legal advice.
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Multi Family Attached can be an R2 or R1, per the building codeoldred said:
Frank, tons of info. I'm going to print out everything and go to a corner with pencil and paper and try to work it out. I do know that the USBC was adopted by VA in 1973, so this language should be applicable. Thank you Frank, I'll get through it and will post back. Yes, it is time we look for a more accessible complex. We have family in Florida and I need some family around us. We will not head in that direction though until a decision has been made here, on this case.....or at least in the hands of a good attorney. I am afraid that if we move before then we will not come back to finish it. We are not adversarial people, but we cannot walk away from this fight.
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Conarb, no, no local law libraries. I even called Liberty University, here in Lynchburg, which has a law program and was told, no, there is no library at the University or in the city for public access. Good suggestion though, thank you.
Thank you Mr. Handler. I've been ordering from the International Code office in Chicago and paying a $1.00 per page, $20.00 minimum per order for 1975 Boca codes. At $60.00 it seems smarter to make that purchase.....especially going forward with the case.