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Built in "common use" Gas Grill at apartments?

steveray

steveray

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
14,131
Location
West of the river CT
Not a kitchen, patio will be on an accessible route, no seating at this time, do they need to have any kind of accessibility to a built in grill? Associated countertops? With the fire code not allowing grills on balconies I am guessing this is becoming an alternative at apartment complexes? Thanks!
 
3+ apartments built after 3/13/1991 are subject to the Fair Housing Act Design Manual (FHADM). See this excerpt from page 2.12:
1675389960105.png
In California, CBC 1127A also generically requires "common use facilities" to be accessible.

If this is public housing, then ADA would require common area amenities to be accessible as well.

A barbecue in and of itself does not constitute a "kitchen". A kitchen must have space for the (a) preparation and (b) cooking of food. BBQ's are for preparation only. If however your outdoor apartment area has a prep sink near the BBQ, then it is analogous to a kitchen, and the BBQ is at type of cooktop/oven.

As to the specifics of your question, I've retrofitted existing apartments to satisfy ADA claims, and here's what was agreed to:

All controls for use by the residents would be within ADA reach range (ADA 308) for either a side or forward approach.
The handle for the lid of the grill needs to be in reach range when the grill is in closed position. The CASp did not seem as stringent about having the handle accessible when the grille is fully open.
If the grille has a built-in shelf, or if the grille is built into a countertop, at least one portion of the shelf/counter needed to be within accessible reach range. A minimum of 30" width is preferable.

On a separate note, all the apartment developers with gas grilles have (a) automatic shutoff timers, and (b) some type of gas valve remote control from the management office, to keep people form wasting fuel.

https://flame-tec.com/
 
Yikes said:
3+ apartments built after 3/13/1991 are subject to the Fair Housing Act Design Manual (FHADM). See this excerpt from page 2.12:
View attachment 10062
In California, CBC 1127A also generically requires "common use facilities" to be accessible.

If this is public housing, then ADA would require common area amenities to be accessible as well.

A barbecue in and of itself does not constitute a "kitchen". A kitchen must have space for the (a) preparation and (b) cooking of food. BBQ's are for preparation only. If however your outdoor apartment area has a prep sink near the BBQ, then it is analogous to a kitchen, and the BBQ is at type of cooktop/oven.

As to the specifics of your question, I've retrofitted existing apartments to satisfy ADA claims, and here's what was agreed to:

All controls for use by the residents would be within ADA reach range (ADA 308) for either a side or forward approach.
The handle for the lid of the grill needs to be in reach range when the grill is in closed position. The CASp did not seem as stringent about having the handle accessible when the grille is fully open.
If the grille has a built-in shelf, or if the grille is built into a countertop, at least one portion of the shelf/counter needed to be within accessible reach range. A minimum of 30" width is preferable.

On a separate note, all the apartment developers with gas grilles have (a) automatic shutoff timers, and (b) some type of gas valve remote control from the management office, to keep people form wasting fuel.

https://flame-tec.com/
Click to expand...
Not public....built in the 80's
 
I have always required it, but I can't say anyone has ever resisted. Sinks, work surface and cooking appliance. All easy to make accessible. I have had more trouble getting the accessible route to the areas. 1107.3 scopes it.
 
So lets start with this...2021

1108.3 Accessible spaces. Rooms and spaces available to
the general public or available for use by residents and serving
Accessible units, Type A units or Type B units shall be
accessible. Accessible spaces shall include toilet and bathing
rooms, kitchen, living and dining areas and any exterior
spaces, including patios, terraces and balconies.

The patio is accessible, but I don't think it is a kitchen by definition which is part of what was tripping me up.

1110.12 Seating at tables, counters and work surfaces.
Where seating or standing space at fixed or built-in tables,
counters or work surfaces is provided in accessible spaces, at
least 5 percent of the seating and standing spaces, but not
less than one, shall be accessible.

Missed that as it is headed with "seating".

1110.15 Controls, operating mechanisms and hardware.
Controls, operating mechanisms and hardware intended for
operation by the occupant, including switches that control
lighting and ventilation and electrical convenience outlets, in
accessible spaces, along accessible routes or as parts of
accessible elements shall be accessible.

I guess the broadness of 1110 brings it in pretty well..The question will be at what point/ size the small counter next to the grill makes it a work surface...? I guess if there is room to put the spatula down right?

This is basically just a grill stuffed into a retaining wall, but there will be some counter I imagine...

Thanks all!.
 
yes, it has to be accesible. I agree with the comments about controls being accessible, as well as countertop reach range requirements.

The biggest issue we have had is the handle for the cover which, when fully open, is above the reach range. An easy fix i have heard proposed is to eliminate the cover all together. I would never do this. The mess would ruin the whole area.

I’ll have to check how this was resolved in one of our recent projects but an option I have explored is to add an extension to the handle to make it reachable.
 
Check out the scoping requirements. They apply to common features serving accessible units. In the Fair Housing Act, these are called ‘Covered Multifamily Dwellings’, and it only applies to new units built after 3/13/1991.
I’m not familiar with CT code, only FHA and the California code which is modeled after it.
Out here, if the 100% private apartment project was originally built prior to 3/13/1991, there would be zero Covered Multifamily Dwellings on the site, and therefore the Common area features are not serving any CMDs, and therefore none of those common features (old or new) are required to be accessible: not BBQs, not parking, nothing.
 
1108.3 Accessible spaces.
"Rooms and spaces available to the general public [NO, it's private housing]
- or -
available for use by residents and serving Accessible units, Type A units or Type B units shall be accessible."


So the scoping requirement for an accessible BBQ rests on whether there are any:
  • accessible units,
  • type A units, or
  • Type B units
required by code to exist on the property.
 
Revisiting...

Outdoor grilling area serving A or B units. Proposed built in grill in a counter. It is on an accessible route. I think it is required to be accessible per 2018 IBC 1107.3 and 1109.11, so the work surface max. is 34" per 2009 ANSI 117.1 902.4 and controls per ANSI 117.1 309. I don't see a direct requirement for how wide the 34" tall surface is required to be. Neither do I see an exception that would allow a parallel approach. So if I'm not missing something there needs to be a max. 34" work surface, of some undetermined length, with knee and toe space for a forward approach. I think 30" wide for the work surface since that is the required width of a forward approach.

No other equipmet or appliances. Though I can find no definition it wouldn't appear to be a kitchenette.

Opinions?
 
You did not say if this is public housing. I recently did a public housing project in California, where our 11B accessibility code is based on 2010 ADAS with some modifications. On that project, the main focus was a charcoal grill, not gas, so we were mainly concerned with the lid, the grill height adjustment, and access to the charcoal fire area. Here's an excerpt from that analysis:

  1. SCOPE – FOR PUBLIC HOUSING BBQ
My impression is that if a common area patio with a BBQ is going to be covered at all, it be either as a “picnic area” (11B-246.5), or as a “kitchen” (11B-212.2), or as an “operable part” (11B-205.1).
  • 11B-246.5 covers “Picnic Areas”, but the only scoping requirement is for tables, not for BBQs.
  • 11B 212.2 covers kitchens, kitchenettes and wet bars, which CBC 202 defines as: A room, space or area with equipment for the preparation and cooking of food. This refers us to 804.6.2 for appliance, which refers us to 309 for “operable parts” with 2 exceptions:
    • Appliance doors and door latching devices don’t need to comply with 309.4 for height of operable parts.
    • Bottom-hinged appliance doors also don’t need to comply with 309.3 for tight grasping, pinching, twisting, or 5 lbs. operating force, or one-handed operation. It is my opinion that a grille lid is a type of door; and a rear-hinged grill lid in the open position is definitely a bottom-hinged door.
  • Although a BBQ is technically neither an “oven” nor a “cooktop” nor a “range” I believe it is still best practice when considering it as an appliance to comply with 11B-804.6.1 by providing a 30”x48” clear floor space (max 2% slope), with a parallel approach. As an outdoor space, the accessible route actually needs to be min 48” in all directions per CBC , not just 30”x48”.
 
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