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California + Level landing required at elevator door opening?

J

JPohling

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
1,593
Location
San Diego
We are remodeling a few elevator lobbies in a high rise. The intent is to remove the flooring materials and go with a polished concrete aesthetic. We have accomplished this on many buildings. We have a new building that has a bit of a beveled slope at the elevator door entries.

From my initial code review it does not look like the door openings to an elevator have a level landing requirement. 11B.407.2

The elevator control buttons are required to have a level landing for the button operation. 11B 407.2.1.3

So my thought is that the path onto the elevator is much more similar to an accessible route - walking surface that would allow a 5% running slope.
Does anyone have a code section that I missed in my review to reach this conclusion? Agree or disagree?
 
steveray said:
A landing is2% max....Typically
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Agreed, but nothing in the code indicates this is a landing. 11B-407.2 Elevator landing requirements. Only mentions a landing required at the car controls.

Is this a automatic door maneuvering space? I could see that requiring a level landing. But, I have also had level landing requirements eliminated when we equip the door with an automatic operator.
 
You use ANSI?

407.2 Elevator Landing Requirements​


Elevator landings shall comply with Section 407.2.

407.2.1.3 Clear Floor Space​


A clear floor space shall be provided at call controls.

305.2 Floor Surfaces​


Floor surfaces of a clear floor space shall comply with Section 302. Changes in level shall not be permitted within the clear floor space.
Exception: Slopes not steeper than 1:48 shall be permitted.
 
steveray said:
You use ANSI?

407.2 Elevator Landing Requirements​


Elevator landings shall comply with Section 407.2.

407.2.1.3 Clear Floor Space​


A clear floor space shall be provided at call controls.

305.2 Floor Surfaces​


Floor surfaces of a clear floor space shall comply with Section 302. Changes in level shall not be permitted within the clear floor space.
Exception: Slopes not steeper than 1:48 shall be permitted.
Click to expand...
Steve, we have a level floor surface at the call controls. I am wondering about the path thru the automatic doors and onto the elevator.
TheCommish said:
Could you consider the transition threshold, level to the elevator floor track and with slope?
View attachment 11036
Click to expand...
We are trying to avoid a threshold piece if possible.
 
JPohling, I think you are correct. 404.2.4.4 level (<2% slope all directions) floor compliance with 302 is specifically scoped for "maneuvering clearance at doors". Assuming your elevators doors are a type of automatic power door (not manual elevator doors), then neither 404.3 nor 407.3 have any door "maneuvering clearance" requirements. Therefore the slope limitations at the automatic elevator doors are 5% main slope, 2% cross slope; and vertical changes are per 303.2 and 303.3
 
Yikes said:
JPohling, I think you are correct. 404.2.4.4 level (<2% slope all directions) floor compliance with 302 is specifically scoped for "maneuvering clearance at doors". Assuming your elevators doors are a type of automatic power door (not manual elevator doors), then neither 404.3 nor 407.3 have any door "maneuvering clearance" requirements. Therefore the slope limitations at the automatic elevator doors are 5% main slope, 2% cross slope; and vertical changes are per 303.2 and 303.3
Click to expand...
I am a bit concerned about this code section:
1690498528036.png
 
This is a good question, I was faced with this situation and couldn't find anything requiring a level landing at the doorway, only the controls. I even tried looking at the hoistway signage thinking it would require a level landing but I couldn't find it there either. It just seemed odd you could be met with a 5% slope leaving the elevator.
 
I know this thread is a little older but I was forced to track down the code for this condition and thought what I found might be helpful.

After doing some research into the elevator sill requirements, I found the standards that the state elevator inspectors refer to deep within the State of California's Dept. of Industrial Relations (CalOSHA) website. Here is a link to the document:

https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3020.html

In summary though, Chapter 11B-402.2 refers to the elevator as an accessible path of egress and therefore the path leading to it must maintain a slope of less than 1:20 or 5% in the direction of travel.
As for the link above, the Department of Industrial Relations Title 8, subchapter 6, article 7, subsection 3020 states "...Sills shall be substantially level with the floor surface of the elevator landing or shall be beveled to meet the floor surface,...".

Hopefully this gives somewhat clearer direction as to how to finish the walking surface at an elevator landing even though the verbiage they use, like "substantially", is still subject to interpretation.
 
Accessible routes: walking surfaces with a running slope not steeper than 1:20, doorways, ramps, curb ramps excluding the flared sides, elevators, and platform lifts.

11B-404.2.4.4 Floor or Ground Surface​

Floor or ground surface within required maneuvering clearances shall comply with Section 11B-302. Changes in level, slopes exceeding 1:48, and detectable warnings shall not be permitted.

11B-407.2 Elevator Landing Requirements
Elevator landings shall comply with Section 11B-407.2.
11B-305.2 Floor or Ground Surfaces
Floor or ground surfaces of a clear floor or ground space shall comply with Section 11B-302. Changes in level, slopes exceeding 1:48, and detectable warnings shall not be permitted.

So, based on that, I Would say, 2% max at elevators
 
Mark, automatic doors seemingly have no maneuvering clearances. Elevator landing requirements are specific to call button areas. Beverly Hills was fine with 5% max as an accessible route.
 
JPohling said:
Mark, automatic doors seemingly have no maneuvering clearances. Elevator landing requirements are specific to call button areas. Beverly Hills was fine with 5% max as an accessible route.
Click to expand...
Because a Building inspector is okay with something does not mean it meets the letter or intent of the code.
You, as a licensed Architect can still end up in court.
Risk/liability assessment....
 
Mark, I was saying I believe my code analysis is accurate and BH corroborated it. Specifically plan review and this was the only issue they were focused on. The inspector initially raised the issue and I had to address it back thru plan review.
 
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