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Change in Occupancy and Use

C

CFD937

Guest
Hello,

I am new to the forum and need some help.

We have a 100 Year old two story Historic Home, on the National Register, which the owners will now be using as an “Event Facility” for weddings, special events, etc.... No one has lived in the house for over twenty years. Code would put this as an Assembly Occupancy and Use(A-2 or A-3). NFPA 101 (Life and Safety Code) and NFPA 914 both require lighted exit signs and emergency egress lighting (an exception is 11.3.2.9.3 Structures occupied only during daylight hours, with windows arranged to provide the required level of illumination of all portions of the means of egress during such hours, shall be exempt from emergency lighting requirements where approved by the authority having jurisdiction.) This one will be used day and/or night, so that exception is out.

One of the owners has told me about the McDaniel-Tichenor House in Monroe, GA. She said "this place was not required to have anything of this nature". My thoughts are: unless this property was opened to the public for events many, many years ago(before the jurisdiction adopted building codes); I can’t find any reason why they didn’t/don't have to comply.

Do you know of any exemptions which would allow them to function without lighted exit signs and emergency egress lighting?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome to the Forum!......It is doubtful.....the IEBC has alot of gimmies for historic buildings, but I have never heard of Exits and Emergencies being exempted....and I don't know much about 101...but my FM's have never mentioned anything about it either......How big is the place? Wait till they have to sprinkler it!
 
Existing building code 2009

1105.12 Exit signs.

The code official may accept alternative exit sign locations where such signs would damage the historic character of the building or structure. Such signs shall identify the exits and exit path.

Have you looked at these photoluminescent exit signs?

Emergency Exit Signs | LED Exit Signs | Low Location Exit Signs

I don't see an exception for emergency illumination. Maybe a generator if they want to keep the historical look and not install bug eyes.
 
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CFD937,

1st, ...Welcome to The Building Codes Forum!

2nd, ...regarding the "McDaniel-Tichnenor House in Monroe, GA", no Historic

Bldg. designation will allow it, ...unless "the powers-that-be" allowed it [ from

the `06 IBC, Section 3407.1 - Historic buildings: "The provisions of this code

relating to the construction, repair, alteration, addition, restoration and

movement of structures, and change of occupancy shall not be mandatory for

historic buildings where such buildings are judged by the building official to not

constitute a distinct life safety hazard." ]........The BO might have been directed

to let it go.......Just sayin'...



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2009 IFC

102.6 Historic buildings.

The provisions of this code relating to the construction, alteration , repair, enlargement, restoration, relocation or moving of buildings or structures shall not be mandatory for existing buildings or structures identified and classified by the state or local jurisdiction as historic buildings when such buildings or structures do not constitute a distinct hazard to life or property. Fire protection in designated historic buildings and structures shall be provided in accordance with an approved fire protection plan.
 
Welcome .....

How did you find us

Do you mind saying what you do for a living
 
Welcome to the Forum!

I agree with others, there may be some acceptable alternatives, depending on the AhJ, but an outright hall pass on the code is not acceptable, regardless of the historical status.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys! I greatly appreciate the links too.

steveray: the size is approx. 4000 sq. ft. two story.

cda: I work for the City as Building Official/Code Enforcement Officer/Marshal/Volunteer Fireman. Started in 2002 as the housing inspector and have gained all the responsibilities since. Was appointed BO in 2006(I got all the load and no pay increase since :( (Go Figure!) A lot of jobs have been cut, so I've been a one man show going on three years now. Our new city manager doesn't understand how much responsibility I have and it appears he really doesn't care either. Lots of STRESS!! BTW...I found the site surfing the internet two days ago. Holy Cow!!! this site has great resources...All of You Guys!

north star: "The BO might have been directed to let it go.......Just sayin'..." I know that feeling! I actually got a call back from the BO in that county after I posted here. He said it had been that way before he came to the county twenty years ago. My best guess is either the place was opened before the city/county adopted the codes, etc... or the "Powers-to-be" told them to let it go.

As you all know, the statements "Well, so and so didn't have to do it" or "They don't do it like this where I come from" ...BLA BLA BLA... are responses we get from time to time. I just call it like I see it!!! If I'm not 100% sure, I dive in the code book. And like I have done here, I call and email around to people in the business to get their thoughts and opinions. I'm not even close to perfet and make mistakes, but I try my best to be right and fair. After looking at several posts on the site, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with the target on my back!

Again, Thank you all for the input. You have been a great help!!! Looking forward to getting in on some posts soon!
 
Greetings,

Welcome to this forum. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks which post here. It has been invaluable to me as I am in a similar situation in that I am the only dude in town for building and fire code enforcement. It really helps to bounce some of these questions around!

Just my 2 cents. I don't care what code you have on your books. Bottom line is that you have to be able to get out of a building in case of fire. If the powers that be disagree with your interpretations, then respectfully ask for some guidance in writing at the least. I have done that a couple of times and the powers that be then got with the city attorneys. Lo and behold, then they start to see it your way (if you've done your homework!). Bottom line is far as I'm concerned, I have to sleep at night. I'm not real hip on a lot of these code requirements, but when it comes to life safety, I take that seriously. Then again, I'm also the local fire code official also. If you are also the fire code official, that should give you some more muscle as well. If not, get with the them for some backup.

Have A Great Weekend!

BS
 
Emergency lighting can be the regular lighting tripped by a fire alarm/power loss onto a generator. Exits, and I don't have my book, do not necessarily need to be marked if the exit is "obvious" from everyplace in the room. If there is one door in a space,and it is visible in an emergency, and the occupant load is less than. . . 50. . . I don't believe it requires signage.

I am sure someone will make me go look that up.

See section 2009 NFPA 101 7.10.1.5.1 for Exit Access (if it is Exit Access, not Mean of Egress), 7.10 for marking Means of Egress
 
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and it is visible in an emergency, and the occupant load is less than. . . 50. . . I don't believe it requires signage
Click to expand...
The 50 number went away, exceeding the common path of travel could require 2 exits which then requires signage

1. Exit signs are not required in rooms or areas that require only one exit or exit access
 
mtlogcabin said:
The 50 number went away, exceeding the common path of travel could require 2 exits which then requires signage1. Exit signs are not required in rooms or areas that require only one exit or exit access
Click to expand...
Unless I am mistaken, the number less than 50 , one treats an assembly area as a business in both NFPA and IBC, is this not correct?
 
No- because the use of the space determines the occupant load......(chapter 10), not the type of occupancy as outlines in chapter 3......

Perfect example, Technical college - B occupancy, has an auditorium in the classroom building that seats 750 students - the occupancy is still a B as outlined in chapter 3......... But the means of egress and design thereof, must meet the requirements of Chapter 10 ----- The fire protection features must meet the requirement for each intended use of every space..... as outlined in chapter 9
 
^^ WTH!! in your "perfect example" That would be a mixed occupancy, B and A3. The 750 person auditorium is in no way a B and must meet the requirements of an A.
 
2009 IBC 303.1 Exception 1

2009 NFPA 101 6.1.2.1

Both reevaluate assembly occupancies with less than 50 people as an occupancy other than assemmbly
 
Builder Bob said:
No- because the use of the space determines the occupant load......(chapter 10), not the type of occupancy as outlines in chapter 3......Perfect example, Technical college - B occupancy, has an auditorium in the classroom building that seats 750 students - the occupancy is still a B as outlined in chapter 3......... But the means of egress and design thereof, must meet the requirements of Chapter 10 ----- The fire protection features must meet the requirement for each intended use of every space..... as outlined in chapter 9
Click to expand...
JPoling, I believe we are on the same page........ I do not advocate that an auditorium could or ever should be classified as a B occupancy.
 
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Walkerton Tavern is a similar project in our county 1820s building has been many things over the years

Walkerton Tavern

With the conversion of the building to an events venue we required elevator (the white tower on the side) for accesibility, an exterior stair to get two exits, sprinklers to allow for the three story open stair up the middle of the building. Did allow obvious exits without exit signs. Does have emergency lighting. Historical entrance in swinging door is to be kept open during events with over 50 people (outswinging storm door stays closed)
 
I assume this historic building already has lights and running water, so putting some of the lights on an EM circuit shouldn't be too much of a challenge.

In some communities, the historic community has a great deal of influence but you can't totally agree to at least basic life safety measures to keep the place historic.
 
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