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City wants to enforce newly adopted code on Permitted Project Under Construction

B

bhdfw

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Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
5
Location
Texas
Hello:
I have a Texas project (under construction) - that was permitted under 2016 IBC. The city has now adopted a newer version of the IBC. The fire marshal is now requiring that the project meet the new code's requirements (carbon monoxide sensors) that were not required under the code when permitted (and not included in the project's scope). Has anyone had experience with a city requiring adherence to a different code than used when the project was permitted? Common sense says that is not fair - but - I may be missing something?
Thanks for your help.
 
Request from the city secretary / open records

The adoption wording for the new code..

It should state something like stuff before this is good to go.

Other route is the appeals process

Yep,,, should not happen.
 
Push back and see if the AHJ expires the permit that is five years old.
 
What is the occupancy type for this project. CO detection is a retro requirement in the 2018 IFC

2018 IFC

SECTION 1101
GENERAL

1101.1 Scope.
The provisions of this chapter shall apply to existing buildings constructed prior to the adoption of this code.

1101.2 Intent.
The intent of this chapter is to provide a minimum degree of fire and life safety to persons occupying existing buildings by providing minimum construction requirements where such existing buildings do not comply with the minimum requirements of the International Building Code.

1103.9 Carbon monoxide alarms.
Carbon monoxide alarms shall be installed in existing dwelling units and sleeping units where those units include any of the conditions identified in Sections 915.1.2 through 915.1.6 The carbon monoxide alarms shall be installed in the locations specified in Section 915.2 and the installation shall be in accordance with Section 915.4.

Exceptions:

1. Carbon monoxide alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated where the code that was in effect at the time of construction did not require carbon monoxide detectors to be provided.

2. Carbon monoxide alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated in dwelling units that are not served from a commercial power source.

3. A carbon monoxide detection system in accordance with Section 915.5 shall be an acceptable alternative to carbon monoxide alarms.
 
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Reactions: cda
Thats seems pretty unreasonable to me, it also wouldnt be the first time a fire marshal told me something was required by code that really wasn't....I have heard this reffered to as "Flash of the Badge"
 
mtlogcabin said:
What is the occupancy type for this project. CO detection is a retro requirement in the 2018 IFC

2018 IFC

SECTION 1101
GENERAL

1101.1 Scope.
The provisions of this chapter shall apply to existing buildings constructed prior to the adoption of this code.

1101.2 Intent.
The intent of this chapter is to provide a minimum degree of fire and life safety to persons occupying existing buildings by providing minimum construction requirements where such existing buildings do not comply with the minimum requirements of the International Building Code.

1103.9 Carbon monoxide alarms.
Carbon monoxide alarms shall be installed in existing dwelling units and sleeping units where those units include any of the conditions identified in Sections 915.1.2 through 915.1.6 The carbon monoxide alarms shall be installed in the locations specified in Section 915.2 and the installation shall be in accordance with Section 915.4.

Exceptions:

1. Carbon monoxide alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated where the code that was in effect at the time of construction did not require carbon monoxide detectors to be provided.

2. Carbon monoxide alarms are permitted to be solely battery operated in dwelling units that are not served from a commercial power source.

3. A carbon monoxide detection system in accordance with Section 915.5 shall be an acceptable alternative to carbon monoxide alarms.
Click to expand...
The project is a large church - A3.
 
In general, the construction requirements are reflected in the code that was adopted at time of permit application.
There are rare circumstances in which codes are adopted to require retroactive life-safety actions on existing buildings (or on buildings currently under construction). Several historical examples that come to mind here in California are:
  • Seismic reinforcement of unreinforced masonry buildings
  • Smoke detectors in dwelling units, and also carbon monoxide detectors in buildings that have gas appliances
  • Balcony inspections on multifamily dwellings
  • Retrofitting of existing fixed window security bars on bedrooms to allow for emergency escape.
  • An upcoming one is "soft story" seismic retrofits
In each case, special legislation is required by the adopting agency. As cda said, your first step is to ask the inspector for the code citation, and a reference as to how it was adopted.
 
There was no IBC 2016. It could be the 2012 or 2015 code.

If project was issued under a 2015 code and the permit expired, it is possible that the project will need to now be completed by an updated code in your jurisdiction, not sure if there are amended sections that require this.

We have housing projects here that will go beyond the 6-month permit window, I let them finish the house out under the original code on the the permit. But if construction stops they could be subject to the new code if adopted during the project life span.

With that said, if you started and stopped, you could very well be required to follow the updated code. I did notice a change recently on a business occupant load change (IBC 2014/ 100gross to a IBC 2018 150gross) that could have a major effect on a plan review. So the FD could be in line?
 
I had a FM override me on a door swing for a baby's room, said the door had to be wider so they could get a baby crib full of babies through the door way during a fire event. I guess I must have missed that one on plan review. Contractors Architect missed it and the contractor had to reorder the door to meet the swing change.

It happens.
 
Pcinspector1 said:
I had a FM override me on a door swing for a baby's room, said the door had to be wider so they could get a baby crib full of babies through the door way during a fire event. I guess I must have missed that one on plan review. Contractors Architect missed it and the contractor had to reorder the door to meet the swing change.

It happens.
Click to expand...
Did the FM cite a particular code reference? Or was it a personal preference?
 
Pcinspector1 said:
There was no IBC 2016. It could be the 2012 or 2015 code.

If project was issued under a 2015 code and the permit expired, it is possible that the project will need to now be completed by an updated code in your jurisdiction, not sure if there are amended sections that require this.

We have housing projects here that will go beyond the 6-month permit window, I let them finish the house out under the original code on the the permit. But if construction stops they could be subject to the new code if adopted during the project life span.

With that said, if you started and stopped, you could very well be required to follow the updated code. I did notice a change recently on a business occupant load change (IBC 2014/ 100gross to a IBC 2018 150gross) that could have a major effect on a plan review. So the FD could be in line?
Click to expand...
We submitted under the in effect 2016 code - the permit was issued on 8/1/2019 - construction was started within their 180 day limit - and has continued uninterrupted since. The city adopted the 2018 code on 12/2/19.
 
Yikes said:
Did the FM cite a particular code reference? Or was it a personal preference?
Click to expand...
They just said that the 2018 code required sensors and all of construction must meet the CURRENT code - regardless of the code in effect when permitted.
 
Yikes said:
Did the FM cite a particular code reference? Or was it a personal preference?
Click to expand...
No, I did not get a code reference or have to fight that, the contractor was there at final inspection and said no problem they had a door and frame.
 
bhdfw said:
We submitted under the in effect 2016 code - the permit was issued on 8/1/2019 - construction was started within their 180 day limit - and has continued uninterrupted since. The city adopted the 2018 code on 12/2/19.
Click to expand...
I would very nicely ask for the legislation section that says "not matter what the code was when the permit was issued, you automatically have to use the code that is current"

That in itself is a very large over step on how does a Design firm even put a set of construction documents together not knowing what might change a year into a project that is a 5 year build.

I am not familiar with Texas building code being from the northeast. But the codes in effect at the time the permit is issued are what follow the project through construction, as long as, the construction does not stop for a specified time period, as stated in the code.

In NJ the precedent has always been, the first 6 months that a new code goes into effect, the permit filer has the choice to use the newly adopted code or the previous code. New Code adoption normally happens in September every 3 - 6 years and the filer has the option up until March to choose. After that all permits are on the new adoption.

You can't expect multi-year builds to do anything if they have to worry in a year if a new code will be adopted and now require a major cost increase.

I would venture it could be, but the norm, says notta.
 
Mt state rules
(35) Upon the effective date of new requirements, administrative rules, and/or adoption of new editions of model codes, any building or project for which a legal building permit has been issued shall not be required to meet the new requirements. If the building or project is subsequently altered or remodeled, the alteration or remodel shall be subject to the applicable requirements in effect at the time of permit issuance for the new work. On a case-by-case basis, the building official shall have the discretion to determine if the process for issuance of a legal permit was substantially complete enough to warrant the exemption of the project or building from the new requirements, rules, or code provisions.

With regards to the last sentence if there is a submitted application along with a complete set of plans we will use the code that it was in effect at the time of submittal. It is not unusual for us to be finished with our part and public works will have a hold on the project that will take weeks if not months before they will sign off and we can issue the permit.
 
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