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Cninese Drywall

Re: Cninese Drywall

J.P. said:
"While the study of 51 homes detected hydrogen sulfide and formaldehyde ... at concentrations below irritant levels, it is possible that the additive or synergistic effects of these and other compounds in the subject homes could cause irritant effects," the Consumer Product Safety Commission said in its executive summary of the study.
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Our new homes today are loaded with formaldehyde - OSB, I Joists, particleboard cabinets, fiberglass insulation, foam insulation, caulking, carpet, and any number of other products. My thinking is that the synergistic effect of the formaldehyde in the construction of the homes and the hydrogen sulfide in the drywall is what has caused the problems. I think what they should be looking at is what happened to homes with the drywall that weren't built with formaldehyde laden products?
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

ConArb,

I checked the Gypsum Association website and they are silent on the Chinese drywall issue. Guess they really don't have to say anything; just let the facts speak for themselves.

For inspectors who don't keep their head in the sand to keep their jobs; you can learn something about gypsum board and it's installation by going to their website;

http://www.gypsum.org/mediaguide.html

But, then again; "the less you know; the easier your job is".

Uncle Bob
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

conarb - "it's the fault of the inspectors for allowing all that formaldehyde in homes. "

You can't be serious. Or do you always 'shoot the messenger'? We didn't put it there. We have no means to order its' removal. Many times we have no way of knowing it is even there.

But I guess it's easier to blame the inspectors than the ones who actually ARE at fault...
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

John:

Don't take it personal, I said, and mean, "inspectors" plural, and as a group. We saw in Minneapolis and Baltimore one faction push an agendum to code, we are seeing other factions pushing agenda to code, all in the name of first public safety, and now saving the earth and all creatures therein. We heard that these code provisions were necessary to protect the public, of whom some 2,000 die each year from fire, and that protection can only be attained by code provisions mandated by a vote of the "inspectors" (plural). In the interests of saving energy, and the planet, groups are mandating the use of toxic materials in our homes that have the potential of killing and maiming millions, and who is the sole arbiter of these provisions, and the group ultimately responsible for their mandate? Inspectors that's who, as a group "inspectors" will be the sole ones making these life and death decisions.

Minneapolis and Baltimore should be wake-up calls, special interests can and are buying their methods and materials as code mandates, who is there to protect the public? Inspectors that's who, let the formaldehyde laden products in, one by one, soon it overwhelms the indoor air and a chemical reaction occurs harming the public, who can stop it? Inspectors, as a group they are the only ones able to protect us, they better get organized to protect the public, who as a group knows nothing about these harmful products.

We've seen how the ICC has reacted to the takeover, first they take the NFPA in and give them leadership positions, then they move to Washington DC into a "Green Building", and then they destroy their Bulletin Board, the only voice of individual inspectors capable of organizing into a group capable of shutting down dangerous code mandates.
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

At least one city is investigating it's Green Building ordinance.



Examiner said:
Yesterday, the San Jose City Council voted to investigate elevated formaldehyde in GreenPoint Rated homes. The City Council adopted ORD. NO. 28622, the Green Building Regulation. However, no building permits will be issued until the Council addresses poor indoor air quality found in existing GreenPoint Rated homes.Two Santa Clara County residents presented data to the Council, showing that GreenPoint Rated homes have elevated formaldehyde. Real estate broker Richard Calhoun explained that homes in all five of the GreenPoint Rated developments in the county have formaldehyde near or above 77 ppb, the average in the Katrina FEMA trailers.

Industrial hygienist Linda Kincaid presented data from specific properties. A GreenPoint Rated development in San Jose was promoted as “free of toxins”. A home in that development had 97 ppb formaldehyde in room air. A kitchen cabinet had nearly 500 ppb formaldehyde.

An upscale development is currently in review for GreenPoint Rated. Room air in one home averaged over 100 ppb, a concentration that will cause illness in most adults. Children can be affected at 30 ppb.

Areas of the home had nearly 300 ppb formaldehyde, the ceiling limit for occupational exposures. A worker in that home could be required to wear a respirator.

Ms. Kincaid repeatedly contacted the builder, and she copied the listing agent for the properties. They did not respond.

Ms. Kincaid then contacted Build It Green and suggested that a home with 300 ppb formaldehyde should not be GreenPoint Rated. Built It Green responded, “There are many ways to achieve GreenPoint Rated”.

Calhoun and Kincaid requested the City Council require item K8 on the GreenPoint Rated worksheet. K8 specifies the air in a home has been tested and contains less than 27 ppb formaldehyde.

However, GreenPoint Rated does not currently require any indoor air testing whatsoever. K8 testing is rare.

As currently structured, the GreenPoint system emphasizes energy conservation at the expense of occupant health. Of 50 points required, only 5 points are needed for Indoor Air Quality.

GreenPoint Rated homes are typically very well sealed. Those homes conserve energy by reducing infiltration of outdoor air. However, formaldehyde in those homes can concentrate to hazardous levels unless occupants open windows daily.¹
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¹ http://www.examiner.com/x-5101-San-Jose ... rmaldehyde
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

ConArb,

I don't scare easily; but, what is the most frightening part of all this, to me; is that all these facts fall on deaf ears. The very people who are counted on by the citizens to regulate the construction of their homes and protect their health and welfare; by omission and/or comission close their eyes and cover their ears; while families are slowly poisioned and new homes are built that are uninhabitable.

Families are exposed to toxic and structurally unsound new homes and their helpless cries are ignored;

http://www.hadd.com/

and,

http://www.hobb.org/hobbv1/links.shtml

For all your warnings; you are mocked and criticized. Your factual information is ignored and scoffed at.

And, good, hard working families lose their health and their homes.

I am saddened and amazed,

Uncle Bob
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

You know Uncle Bob, all that would be required to solve the health problem is an air quality certificate issued by a licensed industrial hygienist prior to the issuance to a final building inspection or CO?

People have short memories, after the last energy crisis in the 70s we had a "sick building syndrome" problem in office buildings when they sealed them up, no amount of added air flow systems did a thing, the only thing that worked was taking out glass and installing openable windows, what a concept, remember the "ventilation" part of the "light and ventilation" code section? Of course now with all the toxic products going into new homes it will take more than adding openable windows, it might even take eliminating the "green" building products to pass the test. Is code enforcement here to save lives or "save the earth"?
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

Keep shooting the messenger... :(

I have a novel idea... GO AFTER THE REAL CULPRITS! The manufacturers, the suppliers, the specifyers (DPRs or otherwise), the builders. You cannot blame the inspectors for allowing products that meet code and are 'approved' as required to comply with the code.

Personally I've never liked 'closed system' buildings.

I remember Legionaires Disease.

I've worked in 'sick buildings'.

But we all know that proper maintenance is expen$ive, so let's just change the filters in the HVAC system when someone complains about the black crap on the ceilings around the diffusers instead of according to the prescribed schedule.

Let's build buildings that are so rediculously large that we can't possibly maintain a reasonable temerature with openable windows, 'forcing' us to use 'closed system'.

Let's put 'RTUs' on flat roofed buildings where they can become a breeding ground for micro-organisms that putrify the air we breathe.

And by all means, let's create a 'free market' economy that breeds mega-corporations to feed the greed of a few rich a$$holes whose only interest is in making ungodly profits at the expense of the rest of us.

And what ever you do, don't EVER suggest regulating THEM! HEAVEN FORBID! That would just be 'big government' restricting 'free' trade!

Sorry, rant over now...
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

John said:
Keep shooting the messenger... :( I have a novel idea... GO AFTER THE REAL CULPRITS! The manufacturers, the suppliers, the specifyers (DPRs or otherwise), the builders. You cannot blame the inspectors for allowing products that meet code and are 'approved' as required to comply with the code.
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You still don't get it, as Minneapolis so dramatically showed us, it is the inspectors who approve the codes, they are responsible for the codes we have both in the inception and enforcement of the codes. If a manufacturer gets crap-board approved made from cow dung and gets it into the codes, who is responsible for the approval? A firefighter is killed when I Joists collapse, his widow sues the manufacturer who made it, the architect who specifies it, the contractor who isntalled it, and their defense is that it is a code-approved material.

I'd say that it's the inspectors who are responsible for bad code approvals, the taxpayers pay their salaries and have a right to assume that they fully investigate materials before voting to approve them as code. Who voted for the green building code that is making people sick? Inspectors, that's who, without their votes we wouldn't have these codes, we pay them to do this for us to protect us from things like formaldehyde.
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

OK, I have to chime in. It is NOT the "inspectors" who vote on codes. IT IS the Code Officials appointed by the member jurisdictions who have the votes. That is how a bunch of wild-card fire sprinkler folks held sway in Minneapolis.

:twisted: Jumped off the soapbox. If it were just the inspectors who voted, we might not have the chaos and tumult that resulted from the Minneapolis debacle. Oops, one foot still on the soapbox. Sorry. :geek:
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

ewenme: Exactly! Now we have a run away train and ICC is hoping to cash in at every turn.

The process was tossed out with the bath water. Most can't see the elephant in the room.

Done now!
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

It's suppose to be the inspectors voting, people who supposedly know about codes. The way the sprinkler industry unabashedly hijacked the process was small potatoes compared to what's happening with the green and energy efficiency industries. What does building safety have to do with saving the earth, saving the trees, and getting U.S. of foreign oil? These industries are political and the codes are being used by commercial and political interests for their own objectives.
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

CA: Have a great Thanksgiving and eat some organic Turkey!

Saving the earth, trees and oil do come in to play in the big picture of codes. Better homes and buildings with safety first are only the first level of building codes. From the footings to the ridge if we can produce healthier, more efficient, stronger safer end products that is the brass ring on the merry go round. However, we have chosen the path of minimum standards supported by voodoo science and driven by corporate greed. The ICC circus is but a snap shot of America at its worst. :(
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

Trying to get warmed up for the day..........being the only Republican in the mix today for our family gathering, thought I’d vent a little on the “Inspector” reference in the process.

I certainly understand the opinions expressed by you all about the development process and directional heading over the past 10 years with code development in both major processes. I see merit in all these expressed opinions. After witnessing the strategic approach of the sprinkler advocate interest in a closed door meeting, I was appalled by the lack of (getting to the root of the problem) associated to materials and reductions in the residential code. Single tunnel vision is an understatement! I was also appalled by seeing some committee members I deeply respected in my field in a couple of committees selling out (lack of better term) on some safety related proposal campaigns for industry interest.

The problem I see is that the interest groups have alliances with some committee affiliations allowing advocacy for a method or product to be displayed prior to voting by inspection officials. The fringe voting members while being confused with all the rebuttal and re-rebuttals, allowances for modifications on the fly and trying to keep up with the rapid process, solicits a lack of perspective on one’s position. It reminds me of that reality show Survivor and the nasty alliances developed.

I agree that we as “Safety Advocates” need to be more vocal and willing to stand on what we research and at minimum, make a stance at these opportunities. One of the topics I spoke up on was a proposal to draft stop the cavity space where a dryer exhaust duct passes. My own associates didn’t support it because the initial proposal was offered by an industry representative. I didn’t care that this particular product was up for consideration as long as the cavity gets draft stopped. We have had four fires where this issue was a contributing factor in vertical fire spread.

When we as officials loose sight with what is logical and makes common sense we get in trouble. Just like voting for sprinklers and leaving when that singular issue is completed. The tunnel vision allows for further reductions in safety if a adoption jurisdiction decides to amend the code and not bring back the safety measures allowed to be reduced.

Time to start the pre-game drinking and may you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

And don't forget CA, 'the Codes' and 'approved materials' are not the same thing. Approvals of materials have very little Code Official input. How many ACTIVE Code Officials are either directly employed by or are in contract with UL or ASTM as consultants? How many products are shown to COs BY UL or ASTM prior to obtaining a listing or approval. Usually it is either proposed prior to being approved and shot down in review (we hope) to the dismay of all - then goes through the process and gets approved/listed... but not by COs, by UL or ASTM or whoever, OR we learn about it after it has an approval or a listing. :roll:

UL sends out recalls and advisories all the time. How many COs can actually remember where each of the recalled items were actually installed? I have never been given a list of each and every outlet, switch, fixture for ANY building, let alone every building. :?

How many COs do you know that have the time to examine every sheet of GWB that gets installed? How many of them (I know, you can't fractionalize "0") would recognize the 'chinese death boards'? Once they're stamped by the US Company that imported them, you would need chemical analysis to tell. :shock:

M...U...S...T.........S...T...O...P.......................RANTING!!!!!! :x :evil:

OK, all better now. :D

Here's wishing you and yours a VERY HAPPY THANKSGIVING. :mrgreen:

If you are travelling, PLEASE remember don't drink and drive... :(

You might hit a bump and spill your drink! :twisted:
 
Re: Cninese Drywall

The money is hidden in Uncle Bob's basement.....next to the moonshine.
 
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