Combustible pipe fire proofing

[pop1888]

Hi, I'm not too familiar with the Ontario Building Code but I don't think this pvc pipe penetrating through a concrete fire separation is fireproof properly. It is in a residential condo. Can anyone with more experience with the code confirm? Thanks.

I found this in the code, but not sure if this is applicable to this situation:

3.1.9.4. Combustible Piping Penetrations

(1) Except as permitted by Sentences (3) to (8), combustiblepiping shall not be used if any part of the piping system penetrates,

(a) a fire separation required to have a fire-resistance rating, or

(b) a membrane that forms part of an assembly required to have a fire-resistance rating.

(2) Combustiblepiping that is part of a system described in Sentence (1) shall not be located in a vertical service space.

(3) Except as provided by Sentences (4) to (7), combustiblepiping is permitted to penetrate a fire separationrequired to have a fire-resistance rating or is permitted to penetrate a membrane that forms part of an assembly required to have a fire-resistance rating, provided the piping is sealed at the penetration by a fire stop that has an F rating not less than the fire-resistance ratingrequired for the fire separation when subjected to the fire test method in CAN/ulc-S115, "Fire Tests of Firestop Systems", with a pressure differential of 50 Pa between the exposed and unexposed sides, with the higher pressure on the exposed side.

(4) Except as required by Sentence (7), combustibledrain piping is permitted to penetrate a horizontal fire separation, provided it leads directly from a noncombustiblewater closet through a concrete floor slab and the piping is sealed at the penetration by a fire stop in conformance with Clause 3.1.9.1.(1)(a).

(5) Except as required by Sentence (7), combustiblepiping is permitted to penetrate a vertical or horizontal fire separation, provided the fire compartmentson each side of the fire separation are sprinklered and the piping is sealed at the penetration by a fire stop in conformance with Clause 3.1.9.1.(1)(a).

(6) Except as required by Sentence (7), combustiblepiping not more than 25 mm in diameter containing chlorine gas is permitted to penetrate a fire separation between a chlorine gas service room built in conjunction with a public pool or public spa and the remainder of the building, provided the piping is sealed at the penetration by a fire stop in conformance with Clause 3.1.9.1.(1)(a).

(7) Where combustible piping penetrates a firewall or a horizontal fire separation described in Sentence 3.2.1.2.(1), the piping shall be sealed at the penetration by a fire stop that has an FT rating not less than the fire-resistance ratingrequired for the firewall or horizontal fire separation when subjected to the fire test method in CAN/ulc-S115, "Fire Tests of Firestop Systems", and,

(a) the fire stopshall have been tested with a pressure differential of 50 Pa between the exposed and unexposed sides, with the higher pressure on the exposed side, or

(b) the fire compartments on each side of the firewall or horizontal fire separation shall be sprinklered.

(8) Combustiblepiping for central vacuum cleaning systems is permitted to penetrate a fire separation, provided the installation conforms to the requirements that apply to combustible piping specified in Sentence (3).

 

[tmurray]

Assuming the slab is a fire separation, yes, it needs fire stopped. Given its proximity to the other opening, it's probably going to need an engineering judgement. It's unlikely a firestopping manufacturer has a system for this specific situation.

What is beside it?

 

[pop1888]

Assuming the slab is a fire separation, yes, it needs fire stopped. Given its proximity to the other opening, it's probably going to need an engineering judgement. It's unlikely a firestopping manufacturer has a system for this specific situation.

What is beside it?

There's an empty pipe casing(the hole with the red beside it) and there's a Cat6 low voltage network cable running beside the pipe in the same opening. Is there any where in the code about how low voltage cable should be ran through a fire separation? It definitely doesn't look right. There's also a supply air duct beside the pvc pipe.

Also, does the code call for fireproofing on both sides of the penetration or just one side?

Thanks for your help.

 

[mark handler]

First question to ask, is it a fire rated wall?

If it is it should be a rated penetration

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/building-construction-us/applications/firestop/through-penetrations/

 

[tmurray]

There's an empty pipe casing(the hole with the red beside it) and there's a Cat6 low voltage network cable running beside the pipe in the same opening. Is there any where in the code about how low voltage cable should be ran through a fire separation? It definitely doesn't look right. There's also a supply air duct beside the pvc pipe.

Also, does the code call for fireproofing on both sides of the penetration or just one side?

Thanks for your help.

1. You can't firestop an empty hole. It needs repaired with construction that maintains the fire separation.

2. You generally can't run everything in a single penetration. Normally everything needs its own hole. A good example of an exception would be a cable bundle. I've seen some listed systems for those, but I've never seen one for dissimilar services like this.

Wiring normally can just be fire stopped as well.

How it is fire stopped is based on the listing. Some are just one side, but others are required on both sides.

Fire stopping is not just a product, it is a system. How the individual products work together to achieve the required rating is very important. No one should be installing fire stopping without becoming familiar with the listing they are using.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

You say this is in a residential condo.
Are both sides of the toilet flange within the same suite? If so, no fire-stopping likely required.
Otherwise, it's liable a fire-stop is required.

I'd accept a plan where the discontinued pipe was *completely* removed and the hole filled with concrete or mortar (I'd apply tile thinset to the existing concrete to help with the bond) followed by a pipe collar/intumescent fire caulk installation consistent with a ULC-listed assembly for the remaining pipe penetration.

 

[pop1888]

The pvc p-trap is from a shower drain in an upstairs unit and the empty hole is also to the same upstairs unit so separate units not the same unit.

I found the listing for that red pipe casing cap based on the:

Pipe Plugs | PVCP Series | Caplugs

PVCP Series Pipe Plugs are designed to plug plastic pipe conduit to prevent the pipe from filling up with concrete and protect it throughout the building process.

www.caplugs.com

It isn't file rated or ULC listed at all. What exactly is the purpose of the red casing cap?

Inspector gadget, you mean the red pipe cap and the casing needs to be removed and filled in correctly then?

 

[Inspector Gadget]

The pvc p-trap is from a shower drain in an upstairs unit and the empty hole is also to the same upstairs unit so separate units not the same unit.

I found the listing for that red pipe casing cap based on the:

Pipe Plugs | PVCP Series | Caplugs

PVCP Series Pipe Plugs are designed to plug plastic pipe conduit to prevent the pipe from filling up with concrete and protect it throughout the building process.

www.caplugs.com

It isn't file rated or ULC listed at all. What exactly is the purpose of the red casing cap?

Inspector gadget, you mean the red pipe cap and the casing needs to be removed and filled in correctly then?

When a required fire separation has been compromised, it has to be "restored" to its original fire-rating - somehow.

The "empty hole" is an unprotected opening through the concrete. I'm not sure what rating the concrete is supposed to have... so it needs to be brought back to standard .... somehow. If it's a one-hour separation, two layers of 5/8 drywall underneath ought to do (see appendix D). But the simplest solution is to take the plastic out, and restore the concrete. I say this because the other pipe needs to be protected as well - like tmurray pointed out, two penetrations rihgt next to each other present a problem.

The pipe plug is NOT a fire-stop system.

A fire stop system is something like this:


It's a recipe of sorts.

This is a big thing with firestops. A lot of folks just grab some goop and spread it around, and call it good. In one case, I had someone using a siliconized sealant that was intended for (a) gyproc joints under concrete slabs, but was also good for (b) half-inch metal pipes through gyproc walls. That's it. The contractor had used this goop to seal off a buncha other stuff (PEX pipes.) Wasn't part of that recipe; remove and try again.

 

[mark handler]

Both of these companies provide fire protection of abandoned "holes". contact them

Power Tools, Fasteners and Software for Construction - Hilti USA

Hilti has power tools, grinders, drills, and saws as well as fasteners, anchors, design and layout software and services for construction professionals

www.hilti.com

Fire Resistance Products, Systems and Designs

We provide third-party certification that your fire resistant systems and assemblies meet regulatory and market requirements, providing confidence to code enforcement officials and buyers that your products are compliant.

www.ul.com

 

[pop1888]

Thanks everyone. Does anyone know a licensed fire protection contractor in the greater toronto area who can come in to inspect everything to give proper guidance? Or do one of these fire product companies do that?

The empty holes through the concrete with the red cap was put in 11 years ago so I'm not sure what the building code was back then. According to the Building Code, does making sure these holes have now the proper fire protection system now they are discovered? I remeber reading something about grandfathering and not having to bring it up to code but I don't know if it applies here.

 

[tmurray]

Thanks everyone. Does anyone know a licensed fire protection contractor in the greater toronto area who can come in to inspect everything to give proper guidance? Or do one of these fire product companies do that?

The empty holes through the concrete with the red cap was put in 11 years ago so I'm not sure what the building code was back then. According to the Building Code, does making sure these holes have now the proper fire protection system now they are discovered? I remeber reading something about grandfathering and not having to bring it up to code but I don't know if it applies here.

There is no such thing as "grandfathering" in the code. The intention of the code is to be applied during construction, with notable exceptions being when the fire code requires continuous compliance (integrity of fire separations is a good example). However, the building official can determine that something that was constructed as code compliant can be required to be brought up to new code, even if no construction is occurring. This is exceptionally rare; I've never heard of anyone trying to do this.

What you have didn't meet code 11 years ago, so it is not permitted to remain.

Normally, the manufacturing companies don't come out themselves (except to instruct contractors), but there should be some local contractors there you can get. There are a few showing up on Google when I searched.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

I remeber reading something about grandfathering and not having to bring it up to code but I don't know if it applies here.

This only applies when something that *was* Code back in the day, or never subject to code (Examples from my area are staircases built in the late1800s that have ornate handrails/guards at less than 32" height).

 

[pop1888]

Thanks for the info. I spoke to the City inspector and they told me they can't enforce anything that wasn't altered today. The pipe casings were not altered recently and if they didn't conform to the 2006 building code which was enforce then and the condo corporation sees the issues but doesn't address it, are there other regulating bodies in Ontario that can be contacted to enforce that it be fixed?

Is the Ontario fire code more lenient than the Ontario building code for fire stopping systems?

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Thanks for the info. I spoke to the City inspector and they told me they can't enforce anything that wasn't altered today. The pipe casings were not altered recently and if they didn't conform to the 2006 building code which was enforce then and the condo corporation sees the issues but doesn't address it, are there other regulating bodies in Ontario that can be contacted to enforce that it be fixed?

Is the Ontario fire code more lenient than the Ontario building code for fire stopping systems?

The two would be intertwined, and ... no.