ComCheck/IECC 2009 - School with Gym

[Elm Group]

I am using Comcheck to show compliance with IECC 2009 on a school. There seems to be no way to comply using non-furred CMU on the gymnasium walls. Yet, that's what I see in every school gym I've been in. Am I missing something or do most schools simply not comply?

 

[mark handler]

First of all welcome to the group

What was done in the past, no longer complies.

Have you thought about thicker CMUs?

Solid grout cells?

Exterior insulation?

 

[Elm Group]

Thanks Mark,

Thicker CMU's don't seem to help. Architecturally, exterior insulation is not a choice. At this point I'm thinking a continous interior insulation and a surface that will withstand getting hit with basketballs etc.

Ed

 

[mark handler]

How about Insulated Concrete Forms?

 

[rogerpa]

All I know about this product is what it says in the brochure. Might be worth a look.

http://cmsgreen.com/pdf/ECOCELL_basementsheet_1210.pdf

 

[Francis Vineyard]

What is the climate zone? If still in planning have you considered HI-R CMU?

 

[Mech]

Sometimes we spec CMU with foam insulation that gets pumped into open cores after the wall is built. We've never had a plans reviewer come back and tell us we couldn't use that to gain compliance.

 

[TJacobs]

insulated pre-cast?

brick veneer-foam sheets-cmu?

Times are a-changing...

 

[brudgers]

Exterior Insulation?

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

I am using Comcheck to show compliance with IECC 2009 on a school. There seems to be no way to comply using non-furred CMU on the gymnasium walls. Yet, that's what I see in every school gym I've been in. Am I missing something or do most schools simply not comply?

If the use of standard CMU construction without insulation is your only structural assembly option at this point, you will not reach compliance (I am not familiar with HI-R CMU product mentioned). Again, some good options have been mentioned, however, they will all probably affect your budget, and should have been included originally. How far are you from compliance (R-Value)?

If I were you I would look at a new structural system that integrally incorporates the required r-values you need (i.e., insulated pre-cast, ICF, etc.), but yet requires minimal architectural/structural revisions to your design.

 

[pmarx]

I am using Comcheck to show compliance with IECC 2009 on a school. There seems to be no way to comply using non-furred CMU on the gymnasium walls. Yet, that's what I see in every school gym I've been in. Am I missing something or do most schools simply not comply?

This is with at least some cell insulation? Would increasing the roof insulation help? Does your state permit the use of calculations other than COMcheck?

 

[Mech]

Over-insulate the rest of the building, then you can leave gaping holes in the gym. Ok, not quite. But the program will let you over-insulate some areas here and under-insulate others there.

 

[Elm Group]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I failed to mention that the building is nearly complete. With some trial and error, I think we have a solution. There were some fairly painless upgrades to some "non-gym" areas that have reduced what is needed in the gym. At this point, com-check will work if we have a R8 continuous on the CMU and only above 10' AFF (to minimize impact damage).

The plan now is to find a product/panel that can be applied to the inside surface of the CMU that will also give us some acoustic benifit. Web surfing tells me there are several choices but the suppliers are still sleeping!

 

[Mech]

Just curious, how did you get a permit without first demonstrating compliance with the IECC? I need to include ComCheck certificates when I submit plans for review.

 

[Elm Group]

The original comcheck I submitted contained errors. I was informed several months ago. I then dropped the ball and am now scrambling to correct my error.