commercial condos

[Spoofman]

Here is the problem:

a building was built as a shell with no occupants listed at time of construction under one ownership.....no lot lines.....near completion of said project the owner decides to add lot lines between all the units and the planning department allows it. Several years later after the original owner losses the property and had no tenants or sales of individual parcels we have a new investor. They now want to sell multiple lots and have them communicate without walls or with openings. My question comes with code backing......how do i stop that breach across the propoerty lines and if there is no wall due to the change after the fact where in the code does it require them to be placed? Our attorney wants to know as we are out of the 2009 IBC and does not see a good definition in 706 or 602 or any other place that he says we can hang our hats on.....Your thoughts?

 

[mark handler]

Airspace condos, just like residental condos. No issue. Common and exterior Walls are Owned by the association.

 

[Spoofman]

there is no association.....

 

[brudgers]

there is no association.....

Then it is unlikely that there is a condominium. Not that it matters.

Condominium is a form of ownership, not occupancy.

If there are lots, then the building code addresses the required separations.

If there is only one lot, then the subdivision into condominiums is irrelevant - in so far as the building code is concerned, tenant separations are the only relevant consideration.

 

[Spoofman]

There are lots defined in the recorded plats with no association. I understand the term "condominium is a real estate term, but coming from a legal terminology stand point...property lines are property lines. I guess the concern is not having a separation between property lines established on the site. One building as in appearance with several fire barriers throughout and now some of the smaller units want to combine use or occupant group across the property line....is this ok or not?

 

[mark handler]

There are lots defined in the recorded plats with no association. I understand the term "condominium is a real estate term, but coming from a legal terminology stand point...property lines are property lines. I guess the concern is not having a separation between property lines established on the site. One building as in appearance with several fire barriers throughout and now some of the smaller units want to combine use or occupant group across the property line....is this ok or not?

Are there lot ties?

 

[Spoofman]

Mark

lot ties?

 

[mark handler]

http://www.foxlegal.net/CommercialCondoConversions_041306.pdf

Condominium Conversion Seminar

 

[mark handler]

mark lot ties?

Covenant and agreement to hold property as one parcel

Legally separate owners, but improvements cannot be made without considering both parcels

 

[mtlogcabin]

Our attorney wants to know as we are out of the 2009 IBC and does not see a good definition in 706 or 602 or any other place that he says we can hang our hats on.....Your thoughts?

Did your attorney see this section and definitions

LOT. A portion or parcel of land considered as a unit.

LOT LINE. A line dividing one lot from another, or from a street or any public place.

FIRE SEPARATION DISTANCE. The distance measured from the building face to one of the following:

1. The closest interior lot line ;

2. To the centerline of a street, an alley or public way; or

3. To an imaginary line between two buildings on the property.

The distance shall be measured at right angles from the face of the wall.

TABLE 602

FIRE-RESISTANCE RATING REQUIREMENTS FOR EXTERIOR WALLS BASED ON FIRE SEPARATION DISTANCEa, e

elminate the lot lines or bind them together. If the owner has not complied with your states condo association laws then it is not a condo until he does.

 

[permitguy]

If they are truly individual lots and fire separation distance is an issue, then they could always replat and dissolve the lot lines.

 

[brudgers]

Did your attorney see this section and definitions LOT. A portion or parcel of land considered as a unit.

Note that in the building code, a lot has to be land. Your subdivision regulations may use a different definition.

That definition is not applicable in these circumstances.

 

[Spoofman]

I guess the question comes back if the lot lines are recorded on a plat......can they have a common occupant with no wall, crossing the property/lot line? Or do they have to have the fire separation requirement as shown in table 706.4?

This has not been directly answered.

 

[Spoofman]

the easy way would be to eleminate the property line between units and have the lots changed.....however if this takes amending the plat then time is a hinderance if not necessary....does this not happen outside of my community?

 

[mark handler]

I guess the question comes back if the lot lines are recorded on a plat......can they have a common occupant with no wall, crossing the property/lot line? Or do they have to have the fire separation requirement as shown in table 706.4?This has not been directly answered.

It depends, Are there lot ties? Yes is they have a lot tie.....No if the lotsare not tied.

Not directly answered.

Lot Tie is a Covenant and agreement to hold property as one parcel

Legally separate owners, but improvements cannot be made without considering both parcels

 

[Spoofman]

i now understand where you were coming from in this regard now!

Thanks Mark

Currently no lot tie

 

[brudgers]

I guess the question comes back if the lot lines are recorded on a plat......can they have a common occupant with no wall, crossing the property/lot line? Or do they have to have the fire separation requirement as shown in table 706.4? This has not been directly answered.

Condos are platted - at least in some jurisdictions. That doesn't make them lots per the building code.