Complicated Hardware Set

[BBrownMRA]

Hello forum,

I have a farily complicated hardware set to specify and I was hoping that someone could point me in the right direction. It is within a hospital, but there is a requirement to separate this occupancy from an adjacent business occupancy. The doors are not double egress, but open from within the ward towards an elevator lobby. (We have looked into alternate ways to gain the separation, but the Hospital Admin will not budge on making these doors rated)

Here are the basic requirements:

2 Hour separation

Double doors

Card reader access only

Automatic door operators as the primary operation

Official code is IBC 2006, but the hospital usually likes us to refer to 2009

My main issue is trying to get the best assembly that will work in the long term. Installing a standard push bar with a mag lock would do what we need, but we are concerned about the door siezing if operated incorrectly, maintenance issues, etc. Expense is always an issue, of course, but at the moment I want to do it right, and then be asked to revise it to the cheaper option if needs be.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[BBrownMRA]

As an aside, I am not sure why there are links in my post above.

 

[cda]

The doors are in a two hour separation and the doors are not rated?????

Also seems like code compliant egress is required either from the elevator lobby or into it??

I know this does not answer the question but maybe things for them to think about

 

[BBrownMRA]

The doors are in a two hour separation and the doors are not rated?????

It is a really complicated and convoluted situation involving the Hospital Internal team and spaces changing occupancy.

Also seems like code compliant egress is required either from the elevator lobby or into it??

The egress is compliant as designed, the building is completely sprinklered and it is a renovation of an existing building.

The existing doors are completely code compliant, passed all inspections and stand up to numerous code reviews.

The ward was "B", it was made "I-2" per code, but the hospital still wants to keep the 2 hour separation due to obscure rules in regards to internal inspections.

 

[cda]

The egress is compliant as designed, the building is completely sprinklered and it is a renovation of an existing building.

But with the door hardware setup they want will it continue to be??

Good luck

 

[BBrownMRA]

But with the door hardware setup they want will it continue to be??

Now you see why I came here...I need to make sure that it is, but also meets all of the user and hospital requirements AND is not a convoluted mess of a hardware set.

 

[cda]

Well when Lori takes a break from her see the world tour, sure she will have fantastic expert advice!!!!!

 

[Markl_AHC]

A few questions which will help me give you some direction...

Based on your OP, the bottom line is you're dealing with a rated pair, operator and card reader correct?

New or existing frame and doors?

Is the card reader being installed on the pull side or push side of the opening?

 

[cda]

doors do not appear to be rated and guess they do not have to be

Originally Posted by cda

The doors are in a two hour separation and the doors are not rated?????

It is a really complicated and convoluted situation involving the Hospital Internal team and spaces changing occupancy.

 

[BBrownMRA]

A few questions which will help me give you some direction...Based on your OP, the bottom line is you're dealing with a rated pair, operator and card reader correct?

New or existing frame and doors?

Is the card reader being installed on the pull side or push side of the opening?

The frame should be able to remain, but the doors are not labeled. But I am open to replacing the frame should it make for a better/more functional assembly.

 

[BBrownMRA]

Is the card reader being installed on the pull side or push side of the opening?.

The pull side. But the doors will be automatically activated from the push side as well, just not with the card reader.

 

[Markl_AHC]

If the frame is not labeled appropriately do yourself a favor and replace it. Will cost less than getting it certified. If it is labeled, I would still recommend figuring to replace the frame then allow an alternate to retain it. You cover a lot of territory keeping yourself out of trouble that way - new will be labeled, have correct preps/reinforcing, not burdened by an existing frame that might have issues, easier wire installation, etc...

Short answer for hardware set: concealed power transfer device, latch-retracting vertical rod/cable fire-rated exit with request-to-exit, door operator (with safety devices if req'd), door status switches, power supply, operation description, elevation/point-to-point wiring diagram. Obviously there's other hardware you will need to include, but I think this covers what you're really asking about. Reasons for choices below...

With magnets you may have hardware installation issues at the top of the door...depending on hardware choices and door width you may run out of space. The door has to latch (and unlatch with the operator) so you need latch retracting hardware anyhow so you have actually added cost and complexity by using magnets.

No door loops. Loops are less expensive, but will have maintenance/appearance issues. There are inexpensive concealed transfers that work well.

Surface vertical rod less bottom rod (SVR-LBR) or concealed vertical rod less bottom rod (CVR-LBR - if using a new frame due to strike preps sometimes). Include a request-to-exit switch if the access control system monitors door status, otherwise delete both REX and DPS. If using concealed, I would consider Von Duprin's concealed vertical cable device - simple to install/maintain over traditional CVR exits. I would use motor-driven latch retraction to avoid the high in-rush requirements of solenoid driven methods. There are a number of choices for that now including Von Duprin, Sargent, SDC (kits to fit most anyone's device). Simpler power supply selection and generally smaller wire gauge requirements.

One vote for CVR devices used with a door operator... If the operator will be full energy (ANSI A156.10) there will be safety detectors required. Most of the time, door-mounted detectors are used. If you use SVR devices, there's a lot more stuff on the door to work around and will affect BOTH sides of the door if full energy. If low-energy compliant (ANSI A156.19), safety detectors are not required. Sometimes they are installed anyhow for various reasons.

Operation description is critical to make sure this will work as expected/required. Very simple example and a guess for your application (not wordy like my post): Doors normally closed and locked. Entry by valid card or command from the access control system unlocks doors and enables push button for operator. Free egress at all times by push bar or operator push button. Doors close and latch upon signal from fire alarm system or loss of power. (You may have other requirements to add).

Wiring diagrams are also critical and go hand-in-hand with operation description. Someone has to connect things and coordinate. Someone standing there with a fist full of wires saying "What do I do with these?" is bad (and yes, I've heard that question at a project we had nothing to do with!).

Hope this helps simplify it a bit.

 

[LGreene]

Well when Lori takes a break from her see the world tour, sure she will have fantastic expert advice!!!!!

This week the world came to me (from Brazil) but it was basically the same as being on a business trip. Thankfully, Mark stepped in! I would use concealed vertical rod/cable devices as well, to give the doors positive latching for the fire rating. There seemed to be some question as to whether the assembly needs to be rated but I think positive latching is required either way.

This is from an analysis that I did on "smoke doors":

Opening Type: Doors in smoke partitions



Typical Location: Section 711 outlines the requirements for smoke partitions including the door openings therein, but there are limited locations within the IBC that currently refer to this section:

a) Section 407.3 permits corridor walls in Group I-2 to have no fire-resistance rating, but it does require that they be constructed as smoke partitions. The door openings in these walls are covered above, as “Doors required to provide an effective barrier to limit the transfer of smoke.”

b) Section 708.14.1, Exception 5, allows the use of smoke partitions to form the elevator lobby in a sprinklered building.

Fire Rating Required? No. Section 711.3 states that unless required elsewhere in the code, smoke partitions are not required to have a fire-resistance rating. The two sections that currently refer to Section 711 do not require a fire-resistance rating.

Closer Required? Yes. Section 711.5.3 states that “Where required elsewhere in the code, doors in smoke partitions shall be self- or automatic-closing by smoke detection in accordance with Section 715.4.8.3.” This section is specifically referenced in Section 708.14.1, Exception 5, therefore, it is “required elsewhere in the code” for elevator lobby doors.

Latch Required? Yes. Section 715.4.8.1 requires an active latch bolt that will secure the door when it is closed. This section is referenced by Section 708.14.1, Exception 5 for elevator lobby doors as part of Section 715.4.8.

Gasketing Required? Yes. Section 711.5.2 states that doors in smoke partitions shall meet the requirements for a smoke and draft control assembly tested in accordance with UL 1784, with the maximum air leakage stated above. This section also requires the installation of smoke doors to be in accordance with NFPA 105 – Standard for the Installation of Smoke Door Assemblies and Other Opening Protectives. Louvers are not allowed in doors in smoke partitions.

The rest of the analysis is here: I Dig Hardware / I Hate Hardware » Decoded: Smoke Door Requirements of the International Building Code (February 2012)