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Confession time

texasbo said:
I too have had trouble looking immigrants straight in the eye, though it is usually when they are significantly shorter or taller than I am.
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To paraphrase a famous short-stature comedian, they can still look me straight in the eye by standing on top of their piles of money.
 
Mule, that's why I would never live in the jurisdiction where I work, not that I have anything to hide, just to close to the work.
 
It is a real disadvantage knowing all of the municipal codes, including property maintenance and building codes, and to be an absolute stickler on the permit issue. Technically, a permit is required to replace a faucet. When is the last time your ahj sold a permit to replace a faucet? I try to hold myself to the same standards we enforce.

PERMIT ISSUANCE ADMINISTRATIVE GUIDELINE: (for my ahj)

IF THE ANSWER TO ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS IS YES, A BUILDING OR MECHANICAL PERMIT IS REQUIRED. IF THE ANSWER IS NO, A PERMIT IS NOT REQUIRED.

1. IS THERE ANY ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING, OR HVAC WORK REQUIRED?

2. ARE ANY WALLS BEING REMOVED OR BUILT?

3. ARE BUILDING SETBACKS AN ISSUE?

4. DOES THE WORK BEING PERFORMED COMPRISE PART OF THE BUILDING ENVELOPE?
 
If it requires a permit I get the permit. As with everything else in life, know the rules and make the rules work for you.
 
4. Helped a friend or relative with techniques to avoid getting caught while bootlegging?
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You mean like: "Make sure that you have the dumpster dropped off late on a Friday afternoon and picked up early on Monday..... or... park all trucks down the street" Uh oh, I just helped someone avoid getting caught.........:eek:
 
Jobsaver said:
Technically, a permit is required to replace a faucet. When is the last time your ahj sold a permit to replace a faucet?
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Maybe it's a case of "ignorance is bliss", but I've made my own mental distinction between rough plumbing and finish work. If I can turn off an angle stop and replace a faucet, then I don't think of it as "plumbing" work in the sense of requiring a permit - - I think of it as a changeout of a finish appliance.

Similarly, if I can run a snake through and unclog the line, I don't feel that I need a permit.

I'm not saying that's how the code reads - - I'm just saying that's how tend to approach it in my own home.

Besides, with only finish work, how could you possibly inspect the quality of the installation unless you were doing a continuous special inspection? For example, if I swapped out a ceiling light, you could not inspect the quality of my wiring job without removing the fixture to look at the J-box, thus effectively un-installing the light itself.
 
play by the rules.. if not for ethics than do it because as soon as you become a political target they will be looking for ammunition.
 
It's probably school fees, road fees, library fees, etc........ usually, it's not the actual permit fee that's expensive, it's all the other stuff they tack on, not to mention the property tax increase
 
I didn't say that the permit itself cost several thousand dollars. I said that the cost of doing it under permit was several thousand additional dollars. For example, my humble 2-bed, 1 bath house was originally built in 1948 with a 70-amp service panel that was upgraded by the previous owner to 100 amp. Some of the original outlets previously shared a circuit and I would've kept it that way, but with the remodel under permit they now have to be dedicated, even if the actual current draw is almost nil.

For example, I have an antique (1940's) gas stove, and the only electrical component on it was the 40 watt decorative light bulb... now on a dedicated appliance circuit.

I bought a new tankless water heater and installed it on an outside wall. Dedicated circuit (only runs a small fan and a microprocessor), service outlet, service light (even though it was 5' away from the back porch light). Those are just a couple of examples. All told, the number of circuits exceeded my panel, and it was too old a panel to accept split breakers. A new 200A panel was required, which triggered a different weatherhead.

so now I have 200 amps for a 2 bed, now 2 bath house, occupied by 2 people plus the occasional houseguest.

The 1" gas line from the meter entered underneath the house, turned left for 2' to a tee, and emerged again to the tankless WH.

"Sorry, we have to see the 1" line tee directly off the meter, otherwise someone may tap off that 2' length in the future and take away gas from the tankless."

I had to have a plumber come in with black iron to redo everything under the house. (On old houses, once you start, you've got to keep going to a clean, logical stopping point.)

And yes, the property tax will increase once I do my final inspection. I kept it open through the end of the year to avoid the property tax increase for 2010.

Is my house safer? On paper, yes. In reality, my old service was just fine and we rarely blew a breaker. The tankless worked just fine before they made us re-pipe it.

BTW, I went back and rewrote the electrical + plumbing contracts to count as much of the cost as logically possible towards the installation of the tankless water heater. That will get me a max. $1500 tax credit for 2010.

PS. If I had added actual square footage, then yes the cost of the permit would've been several thousand dollars due to all the extra fees described by other on this thread. For example inn the so Cal city of Pasadena, the in-lieu affordable housing surcharge for additional market-rate housing on the west side of town is $45 per square foot! that doesn't count park fees, school fees, traffic signalization fees, sewer facility charges, etc... all in addition to the plan check and permit cost.
 
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Yikes said:
I didn't say that the permit itself cost several thousand dollars. I said that the cost of doing it under permit was several thousand additional dollars. For example, my humble 2-bed, 1 bath house was originally built in 1948 with a 70-amp service panel that was upgraded by the previous owner to 100 amp. Some of the original outlets previously shared a circuit and I would've kept it that way, but with the remodel under permit they now have to be dedicated, even if the actual current draw is almost nil. For example, I have an antique (1940's) gas stove, and the only electrical component on it was the 40 watt decorative light bulb... now on a dedicated appliance circuit.

I bought a new tankless water heater and installed it on an outside wall. Dedicated circuit (only runs a small fan and a microprocessor), service outlet, service light (even though it was 5' away from the back porch light). Those are just a couple of examples. All told, the number of circuits exceeded my panel, and it was too old a panel to accept split breakers. A new 200A panel was required, which triggered a different weatherhead.

so now I have 200 amps for a 2 bed, now 2 bath house, occupied by 2 people plus the occasional houseguest.

The 1" gas line from the meter entered underneath the house, turned left for 2' to a tee, and emerged again to the tankless WH.

"Sorry, we have to see the 1" line tee directly off the meter, otherwise someone may tap off that 2' length in the future and take away gas from the tankless."

I had to have a plumber come in with black iron to redo everything under the house. (On old houses, once you start, you've got to keep going to a clean, logical stopping point.)

And yes, the property tax will increase once I do my final inspection. I kept it open through the end of the year to avoid the property tax increase for 2010.

Is my house safer? On paper, yes. In reality, my old service was just fine and we rarely blew a breaker. The tankless worked just fine before they made us re-pipe it.

BTW, I went back and rewrote the electrical + plumbing contracts to count as much of the cost as logically possible towards the installation of the tankless water heater. That will get me a max. $1500 tax credit for 2010.

PS. If I had added actual square footage, then yes the cost of the permit would've been several thousand dollars due to all the extra fees described by other on this thread. For example inn the so Cal city of Pasadena, the in-lieu affordable housing surcharge for additional market-rate housing on the west side of town is $45 per square foot! that doesn't count park fees, school fees, traffic signalization fees, sewer facility charges, etc... all in addition to the plan check and permit cost.
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Dude,

Just wait till you try to replace your windows with the new Lead regulations in effect. Whats to happen when homeowners across this country find out that the EPA has subtracted 30 to 50 thousand dollars of their equity from every home built prior to 1978?

Let's call this an aside, not quite a HiJack!

Bill
 
Congratulations to you Yikes for your "doing the right thing". A clear conscience makes for a

soft pillow! Besides, it's just money!
 
Projects triggering electrical upgrades can get expensive, but it sounds like some overkill (overzealous code official) too. Also, I do not understand the justification for the change in the gas line.

Inept code enforcement is enough justification to practice civil disobedience concerning this thread.
 
I don't think we do the twelve steps here Yikes..

make peace with yourself and pull a permit.. get inspections.
 
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