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Connection to Concrete Encased Electrode

There are 2 issues

How is the clamp listed?

Does the Visqueen extend under the "foundation" portion of the slab?

The normal practice I see is they stop the Visqueen where the edge of the slab meets the deeper foundation ring.
 
gfretwell said:
There are 2 issuesHow is the clamp listed?

Does the Visqueen extend under the "foundation" portion of the slab?

The normal practice I see is they stop the Visqueen where the edge of the slab meets the deeper foundation ring.
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To answer your first question, I am not sure that this clamp is listed for connection to rebar since it is stamped 1/2-3/4 which is a pipe size and rebar is in numbers such as 4-5-6. Again, not sure, it may be.

Second part. The photo is in the footer section right against the form which is out of camera frame so the vapor barrier termination point would be under the CMU when installed.

This is a photo from a house in SE Florida currently under construction.
 
To alleviate thread drift, I started another thread about the vapor barrier issue here: http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/residential-foundation-codes/11479-monolithic-slab-pours-vapor-barriers.html#post106192

Is there a DB on it? I have no idea. If it was, it was on the other side and I did not have a mirror or tools to loosen it to check. Some manufacturers use a stainless top screw to make ID easier for DB but not all. Bryan Holland has posted a list of clamps that were approved for DB and encasement but I can't find it right now. It was a long time ago.
 
I have never used that style on a concrete encased electrode. The acorn that I use is db and suitable for concrete
 
Greetings,

I personally don't like those clamps in any circumstance as I've seen the screws so tight when I kicked it they broke. It does look like an ug clamp though. I personally will not pass them without the tag still attached showing me they are listed. Not sure about connected to rebar but probably not a big deal? I too like the Acorns. Can't go wrong there.

BSSTG
 
Dennis......Is there anything that says how much of the footing has to be in contact with the earth? (for CEE) It is on the outside....just to play devils's advocate....I might have a hard time arguing that in court without more information...
 
steveray said:
Dennis......Is there anything that says how much of the footing has to be in contact with the earth? (for CEE) It is on the outside....just to play devils's advocate....I might have a hard time arguing that in court without more information...
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There is nothing that specifies exactly how much has to be in direct contact with the earth. In this particular case, the backfill will be the direct contact with the earth.

The clamp is still in question and I would never do it this way. I actually put 20-22' of bare copper in the footer trench and attach it to the rebar at 2 points with listed clamps. Is it overkill? yes, but it is what I did.

Apparently the Palm Beach County Florida inspectors had no problems with this installation.
 
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"If a CEE is possible, it shall be included."
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Please cite the applicable code, ...either in Cali. Code Land,or in the IRC that "requires" the CEE !.......Thanks !

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E3608.1.2, it is new to the 2012 in the IRC. Been in the last two cycles of the NEC.

And yes, in contact with the earth is a requirement.
 
2009 IRC

E3608.1 Grounding electrode system. All electrodes specified in Sections E3608.1.1, E3608.1.2, E3608.1.3, E3608.1.4 E3608.1.5 and E3608.1.6 that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these electrodes are present, one or more of the electrodes specified in Sections E3608.1.3, E3608.1.4, E3608.1.5 and E3608.1.6 shall be installed and used.
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E3608.1.2 Concrete-encased electrode. An electrode encased by at least 2 inches (51 mm)of concrete, located horizontally near the bottom or vertically and within that portion of a concrete foundation or footing that is in direct contact with the earth, consisting of at least 20 feet (6096 mm) of one or more bare or zinc-galvanized or other electrically conductive coated steel reinforcing bars or rods of not less than 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) diameter, or consisting of at least 20 feet (6096 mm) of bare copper conductor not smaller than 4 AWG shall be considered as a grounding electrode. Reinforcing bars shall be permitted to be bonded together by the usual steel tiewires or other effectivemeans. Where multiple concrete-encased electrodes are present at a building or structure, only one shall be required to be bonded into the grounding electrode system.
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Won't the outside of the footing be in direct contact with the earth?

Also see NFPA 70-08, 250.50(A)(3)
 
steveray said:
Dennis......Is there anything that says how much of the footing has to be in contact with the earth? (for CEE) It is on the outside....just to play devils's advocate....I might have a hard time arguing that in court without more information...
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Steve in my opinion if 20' is in touch with the earth then I would say it's a concrete encased electrode.
 
rogerpa said:
2009 IRC Won't the outside of the footing be in direct contact with the earth?

Also see NFPA 70-08, 250.50(A)(3)
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It is the bottom of the footer they are interested in esp since the requirement specifies near the bottom of the footer
 
"It is the bottom of the footer they are interested in esp since the requirement specifies near the bottom of the footer "

That language goes away in 2011 I believe....but they do also start to talk about membranes in the FPN's...which are also no longer...

Jeff....no idea on the clamp...never been a sparky...
 
jar546 said:
So does anyone know if that particular clamp based on what we can see is rated for that application?
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I have never seen a db clamp that was galvinized. They make db that look like that but they are bronze or brass
 
Dennis said:
You are correct - I hadn't noticed that.
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We are going from 2005 to 2011 this fall and we are doing classes to try to prepare...I am really not that smart.... :) ....(And the guy I call when I have questions is pretty sharp) I am curious to get clarification on a % or something else that says 20 feet of "X" size to be in contact....foundation waterproofing would kill the wall and top of footing, but the exterior edge should always be in contact...
 
Are some suggesting that the poly vapor barrier negates the "ground contact" of the concrete?

How many ohms R through 2" of concrete vs. 2" of concrete + 6 mil poly?? c'mon

mj
 
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