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CPC 701.2(2)(a) - what counts as "no more than 2 stories" for ABS use?

Y

Yikes

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Nov 2, 2009
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Southern California
I have an existing 3 story building undergoing change of occupancy from hotel to apartments. the hotel was originally built with all cast iron piping, except at the final vents going through the roof is ABS. There is no drainage in this ABS section of the pipe as it is above the highest drain (lavatories).
So, this is in a 3-story portion of the building, but the actual length of ABS vent pipe is only about 7 feet.

does this existing condition comply with the highlighted code below?


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My understanding of this is that no more than two stories can be plastic, i.e. the top two stories of a four story building. What you describe does not conflict with that, in my opinion.
 
ICE said:
Can it be other floors? First and second? Second and third? First and third? Who’s on fourth?
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Code doesn't specify, but I think that any intelligent person would put the lighter weight material up higher. And when this came up for projects I've seen, they elected to only use plastic on the top floor, everything else cast iron. Better for sound.
 
Joe.B said:
Code doesn't specify, but I think that any intelligent person would put the lighter weight material up higher. And when this came up for projects I've seen, they elected to only use plastic on the top floor, everything else cast iron. Better for sound.
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At first glance, most would tend to agree however, deck clamps and supports negate the weight problem. ABS on the first floor connects to ABS under a slab and that is preferable to cast iron.
 
ICE said:
At first glance, most would tend to agree however, deck clamps and supports negate the weight problem. ABS on the first floor connects to ABS under a slab and that is preferable to cast iron.
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I can see that.
 
Does anyone have an explanation for the inclusion of this in the UPC? Is it also found in the IPC?
 
Joe.B said:
Not that I disagree, but why do you feel that way?
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What is it accomplishing? You can have "less than" piping on a couple floors, you pick?...If plastics/ combustibles are the concern, the elevation above grade or story height makes some sense, but not floors 40 and 41 of a 60 story building....

If it is truly considered "less than" plumbing (in the plumbing pipe sense), why allow it at all? Maybe say allowed in 2 story residential buildings?
 
ICE said:
Does anyone have an explanation for the inclusion of this in the UPC?
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It's not in the UPC, the [HCD 1 & HCD 2] notation in the OP indicates it's a California only amendment that applies where HCD 1 and HCD 2 apply. Which are terms I'm not familiar with, but I imagine you are.

It's a further restriction beyond the stock UPC 701.2(2) text just above it, so if the use of ABS/PVC DWV pipe is a hazard, it's no less safe than the base UPC.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
HCD 1 and HCD 2 apply. Which are terms I'm not familiar with, but I imagine you are.
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Legend of Acronyms of Adopting State Agencies

HCD 1
Department of Housing and Community Development

HCD 2
Department of Housing and Community Development
 
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I've heard three explanations, they could have merit:

1. Buildings settle, or "compress" over time and plastic piping does not handle that as well as cast iron. (Maybe because it is not tied to the structure as ICE referenced?)

2. California has high seismic activity and plastic doesn't handle that well either.

3. The cast iron pipe industry made sure their largest market maintained demand.
 
Joe.B said:
I've heard three explanations, they could have merit:

1. Buildings settle, or "compress" over time and plastic piping does not handle that as well as cast iron. (Maybe because it is not tied to the structure as ICE referenced?)

2. California has high seismic activity and plastic doesn't handle that well either.

3. The cast iron pipe industry made sure their largest market maintained demand.
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Good thing the buildings don't settle on the 2 floors you choose and the earthquakes don't shake them.....
 
steveray said:
Good thing the buildings don't settle on the 2 floors you choose and the earthquakes don't shake them.....
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I'm not saying I agree, but the logic there is that you don't have more than two floors of glued plastic. Supposedly that much plastic can move and flex enough, but if you have a 6 story plastic column that's not connected to the building then you could have issues. The cast iron is connected together by fittings that can flex and move, and are tied to the structure of the building.
 
Joe.B said:
I'm not saying I agree, but the logic there is that you don't have more than two floors of glued plastic. Supposedly that much plastic can move and flex enough, but if you have a 6 story plastic column that's not connected to the building then you could have issues. The cast iron is connected together by fittings that can flex and move, and are tied to the structure of the building.
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Not bashing you...just your State....Mainly because I am jealous of the weather ...I think I'm in Long Beach again for ICC this year...
 
steveray said:
Not bashing you...just your State....Mainly because I am jealous of the weather ...I think I'm in Long Beach again for ICC this year...
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Hahaha, thanks. My fragile ego can only handle so much. I love where I live, but that doesn't mean I like the regulations... And yes that's ironic for someone who's job is code enforcement. A job's a job and much of how I get through the the day is with statements like, "I don't write the code, I just read it." Why is that code there? I don't know, and frankly I don't care. On the flip side, I do find the why very interesting and I do like to dig into the possible why's. So I'll geek out and dig deep once in a while.
 
Joe.B said:
So you're saying that being a lazy inspector can be a good thing. I'll remember that for my next review.
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Nope....very hard to argue with yourself (and others) ALL THE TIME as to what is the worst they can do by law.....

Case in point...one of my assistants failed an IRC footing today for no keyway.....
 
steveray said:
Nope....very hard to argue with yourself (and others) ALL THE TIME as to what is the worst they can do by law.....
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You'll go crazy for sure. I'm a hard worker by nature, but I like the idea of being philosophically lazy. Meaning stay focused on the purpose and intent of code, life safety. Do your job and your job only. Don't get into the weeds with people, this is what the code says, my opinion is irrelevant.
 
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