Dead Trees (real) as decorative material in A-3 occupancy?

[rfrito]

My work is killing me with this one. My job is usually to help with selecting and sourcing materials and finishes. We do large scale, interactive exhibits so our choices can be a little wacky. That said the rule is to stick with FR (e84, NFPA 286 etc, all the fun IBC Chapter 8 rules) materials.

This one project involves a stand of spare, dead trees going down a hallway. They are to be painted. I have pushed back as much as I can, there is a way to get the same effect with fire rated materials, but creative INSISTS on using real, dead trees for this element. A-3 occupancy, sprinklered, all that jazz. They would be anchored to the floor, away from walls and ceilings and with a bit of distance between them. The "trees" would actually be more like large branches, no more than 6" wide at their base.

With that in mind - is there any way on earth we can get this to fly? My thought was soaking these in a saturant (like FX Lumberguard) and then painting them with an intumescent paint before artistic painting comes in. Actually my thought is this is a terrible idea but I'd like to be able to come with them with more constructive answers for why we can't do things this way. It was hard enough reminding them we couldn't use spray foam all over the ceiling.

 

[cda]

WELCOME!!!

So when you say hallway, are you talking about say an exit corridor, as in it directs you to exits??

And, about how long would these works of art be there????

 

[mtlogcabin]

2018 IFC
SECTION 806
NATURAL DECORATIVE VEGETATION
IN NEW AND EXISTING BUILDINGS

806.1 Natural cut trees.
Natural cut trees, where allowed by this section, shall have the trunk bottoms cut off not less than 0.5 inch (12.7 mm) above the original cut and shall be placed in a support device complying with Section 806.1.2.

806.1.1 Restricted occupancies.
Natural cut trees shall be prohibited within ambulatory care facilities and Group A, E, I-1, I-2, I-3, I-4, M, R-1, R-2 and R-4 occupancies.

Exceptions:

1. Trees located in areas protected by an approved automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2 shall not be prohibited in Groups A, E, M, R-1 and R-2.

2. Trees shall be allowed within dwelling units in Group R-2 occupancies.

806.1.2 Support devices.
The support device that holds the tree in an upright position shall be of a type that is stable and that meets all of the following criteria:

1. The device shall hold the tree securely and be of adequate size to avoid tipping over of the tree.

2. The device shall be capable of containing a minimum two-day supply of water.

3. The water level, when full, shall cover the tree stem not less than 2 inches (51 mm). The water level shall be maintained above the fresh cut and checked not less than once daily.

806.1.3 Dryness.
The tree shall be removed from the building whenever the needles or leaves fall off readily when a tree branch is shaken or if the needles are brittle and break when bent between the thumb and index finger. The tree shall be checked daily for dryness.

806.2 Obstruction of means of egress.
The required width of any portion of a means of egress shall not be obstructed by decorative vegetation. Natural cut trees shall not be located within an exit, corridor, or a lobby or vestibule.

806.3 Open flame.
Candles and open flames shall not be used on or near decorative vegetation. Natural cut trees shall be kept a distance from heat vents and any open flame or heat-producing devices not less than the height of the tree.

806.4 Electrical fixtures and wiring.
The use of unlisted electrical wiring and lighting on natural vegetation, including natural cut trees, shall be prohibited.

 

[rfrito]

WELCOME!!!

So when you say hallway, are you talking about say an exit corridor, as in it directs you to exits??

And, about how long would these works of art be there????

Hallway is maybe not the best way to describe it, it's more like a long, oddly shaped room that functions for connecting two larger spaces. Not an exit corridor.

Permanently, is the plan. Or at very least 5+ years.

 

[cda]

Any idea what kind of tree?????

 

[rfrito]

2018 IFC
SECTION 806
NATURAL DECORATIVE VEGETATION
IN NEW AND EXISTING BUILDINGS

806.1 Natural cut trees.
Natural cut trees, where allowed by this section, shall have the trunk bottoms cut off not less than 0.5 inch (12.7 mm) above the original cut and shall be placed in a support device complying with Section 806.1.2.

806.1.1 Restricted occupancies.
Natural cut trees shall be prohibited within ambulatory care facilities and Group A, E, I-1, I-2, I-3, I-4, M, R-1, R-2 and R-4 occupancies.

Exceptions:

1. Trees located in areas protected by an approved automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2 shall not be prohibited in Groups A, E, M, R-1 and R-2.

2. Trees shall be allowed within dwelling units in Group R-2 occupancies.

806.1.2 Support devices.
The support device that holds the tree in an upright position shall be of a type that is stable and that meets all of the following criteria:

1. The device shall hold the tree securely and be of adequate size to avoid tipping over of the tree.

2. The device shall be capable of containing a minimum two-day supply of water.

3. The water level, when full, shall cover the tree stem not less than 2 inches (51 mm). The water level shall be maintained above the fresh cut and checked not less than once daily.

806.1.3 Dryness.
The tree shall be removed from the building whenever the needles or leaves fall off readily when a tree branch is shaken or if the needles are brittle and break when bent between the thumb and index finger. The tree shall be checked daily for dryness.

806.2 Obstruction of means of egress.
The required width of any portion of a means of egress shall not be obstructed by decorative vegetation. Natural cut trees shall not be located within an exit, corridor, or a lobby or vestibule.

806.3 Open flame.
Candles and open flames shall not be used on or near decorative vegetation. Natural cut trees shall be kept a distance from heat vents and any open flame or heat-producing devices not less than the height of the tree.

806.4 Electrical fixtures and wiring.
The use of unlisted electrical wiring and lighting on natural vegetation, including natural cut trees, shall be prohibited.

Unfortunately I don't know how much this would apply to this scenario. We're not trying to keep it hydrated and alive looking like a christmas tree. I wish I could just cite 806.1.1 and call it a day but sprinklers are an exception

 

[cda]

Ok what MTLogcabin said,,

Plus if there is a building or fire marshal,, would check with them.

Sorry look like you can do it. With the disclaimers

 

[rfrito]

Any idea what kind of tree?????

My guess is birch or oak because of what's common in the area. Some sort of hardwood. Is there a type that would be better in this scenario (and I'm assuming not pine)

 

[steveray]

806.1.3 Dryness.
The tree shall be removed from the building whenever the needles or leaves fall off readily when a tree branch is shaken or if the needles are brittle and break when bent between the thumb and index finger. The tree shall be checked daily for dryness.

That really gets you on dead trees...You might try to call them trim or decorative materials...

 

[cda]

Unfortunately I don't know how much this would apply to this scenario. We're not trying to keep it hydrated and alive looking like a christmas tree. I wish I could just cite 806.1.1 and call it a day but sprinklers are an exception

I would say 806 would apply, to what you are asking about, and appears to allow it

If you can stick a whole tree in there, you can do a limb.

 

[cda]

My guess is birch or oak because of what's common in the area. Some sort of hardwood. Is there a type that would be better in this scenario (and I'm assuming not pine)

I was going the opposite way , and not use something that would really burn.

Maybe to one of these, and show it to the powers to be, maybe that may convince them to go a different direction.

Good luck

Like I said also , ask the local authorities where this will be, they may say NO.

 

[e hilton]

806.1.3 Dryness.
The tree shall be removed from the building whenever the needles or leaves fall off readily

If there are no leaves or needles, just dead branches, does that help the situation?

 

[forensics]

How about a compromise with this interesting product. It could require subsequent applications over time.

Intumescent Coatings | No-Burn

No-Burn is a leader in passive fire protection with our line of intumescent coatings. Find code-compliant intumescent paint for your substrate, application or intumescent fireproofing requirements including thermal barriers and ignition barriers.

www.noburn.com

 

[cda]

How about a compromise with this interesting product. It could require subsequent applications over time.

Intumescent Coatings | No-Burn

No-Burn is a leader in passive fire protection with our line of intumescent coatings. Find code-compliant intumescent paint for your substrate, application or intumescent fireproofing requirements including thermal barriers and ignition barriers.

www.noburn.com

Would have to apply it

Than do a field test….

Not ALL materials will accept the coating,,,, they still burn.

 

[forensics]

Would have to apply it

Than do a field test….

Not ALL materials will accept the coating,,,, they still burn.

Hi CDA
Something is better than nothing. I was witness to a demo of the product and that is all I know about this, but the NoBurn was applied to a newspaper and the it was subjected to a torch for several minutes. The half of the single page with No Burn went poof but the treated part would not burn. I have seen this product used on thatch for a tiki bar inside a restaurant.
I was sure to sit near the egress

 

[instantmessenger]

How are the "trees" going to be used? Is this for a visual effect of a organic material? What is the minimum size diameter of the branches? Are these minor branches or more tree trunk? It doesn't seem like you are using very small branches? I'm asking because if there are no leaves and no watering for the trees it would seem that the display should be treated as a wood "material" rather than a "tree". I always see section 806 for Christmas trees so this doesn't seem to apply based on the description of the wood display. If the majority of the branches are 1-6", then it would seem to me that section 803 interior finishes is more applicable.