Definitions public ways and yards

[rktect 1]

I was wondering what peoples interpretation of this was in terms of fences, bushes or trees? Public way - A street, alley or other parcel of land open to the outside air leading to a street, that has been deeded, dedicated or otherwise permanently appropriated to the public for public use and which has a clear width and height of not less than 10 feet.

Truth be told, I was looking at a building that we have in our city. It has been around for about 25 years. It is an unlimited area building roughly 50,000 sq. ft. or about 250'x140'. and around its perimeter is an 8 foot tall chain link fence with two locked gates. This fence is located 15 feet from the perimeter of the building. About 20 feet from the perimeter of the building is a dense forest that surrounds about 75% of the building.

Thoughts?

 

[ChrisCampbell]

So the building is using the provisions of IBC 507 for unlimited area? Check out the IBC commentary on this section. It does state that landscaping and "other minor accessory features" can be located in the yard. On the other hand, it goes on to say that one key role of the open area is to allow ample space on all sides for fire-fighting operations. A fence and wooded area would not seem to meet that intent.

 

[Yikes]

I have regularly seen the following in areas classified as "yards and public ways":
parking lots
rail lines (this was listed in an old version of a UBC Q&A interpretation manual)
giant retaining walls with a freeway below
high voltage power lines
trees
fencing
dining patios

When I've asked other people about this, they say that yard width not so much about firefighter access (which is prescribed by the fire code, and a yard can certainly double as a firefighter/ fire vehicle access), but it's more about keeping a fire in the subject building from causing harm to neighboring buildings.

See also this ICC interpretation: https://www3.iccsafe.org/cs/committeeArea/pdf_file/BU_00_20_03.pdf from 2003 which has this Q and A:

Q1: Are structures such as tanks, cooling towers, generators, and trash dumpsters permitted within the 60-foot public way or yard that is required to surround and adjoin an unlimited area building?
A1: Yes. An unlimited area building must be surrounded by a fire separation distance of not less than 60 feet. The fire separation distance, as defined in Section 702.1, is the distance measured from the face of the unlimited area building to an interior lot line, the centerline of an adjacent street, alley or public way, or to an imaginary line between another building on the same property. No other building is permitted within the 60-foot fire separation distance. The purpose of the fire separation distance is to establish a minimum separation between buildings that will serve to reduce the possibility that a fire in one building can spread to another building. It is not the intent to prohibit elements other than buildings from being located within the fire separation distance.

Q2: Is an automotive parking lot permitted within the 60-foot public way or yard that is required to surround and adjoin an unlimited area building?
A2: Yes. A public way can contain a street or alley that is specifically dedicated for vehicular circulation and parking. Vehicular circulation and parking are permitted within the portion of the 60-foot fire separation distance that extends beyond the building property and into a public way. Likewise, vehicular circulation and parking are permitted within the portion of the 60-foot fire separation distance that is located within the building property.

Q3: Is the 60-foot yard that is required to surround an unlimited area building required to be publicly owned?
A3: No. The 60-foot fire separation (open space) must be located on the same property as the building or on property dedicated for public use. The property on which the building is located may be privately owned or publicly owned.

I'd also add regarding Answer 3 that I've seen cities accept, for purposes of establishing a yard separation, a "no-build" easement recorded on a separate, adjacent property.

 

[rktect 1]

I do like the answers so far. How about if I ask one more question in regards to this same property.

If this was not an unlimited area building, would the forest and/or the 8 foot tall locked and gated fence at 15 feet from the building interfere with the 20 foot minimum requirement for frontage increase for section 506 of the IBC?

Last question. Would something in one of our fire codes not allow for this 8 foot tall fence within 20 feet of the building?

Thanks

 

[rktect 1]

I just came up with one more thought. Its a means of egress thought. This building has6 exits but 5 of these exits empty into a space (between fence and building 15 that is feet wide) where people would go to but then it would lead to two locked gates way down the long perimeter wall. The remaining one exit leads to a short 20 foot long corridor and then to another small 3000 sq. ft. building where they could get to the front exit and to the street/parking lot.

 

[SH225]

The egress part of this is addressed in the Exit Discharge section, like 2018 IBC 1028.4 Egress courts and 1028.5 Access to a public way.

 

[Sifu]

I do like the answers so far. How about if I ask one more question in regards to this same property.

If this was not an unlimited area building, would the forest and/or the 8 foot tall locked and gated fence at 15 feet from the building interfere with the 20 foot minimum requirement for frontage increase for section 506 of the IBC?

Last question. Would something in one of our fire codes not allow for this 8 foot tall fence within 20 feet of the building?

Thanks

2018 IBC 506.3.1 says the open space must have access from a street or approved fire lane in order to contribute to the frontage increase. Commentary goes on to say that any part that is not accessible to the fire department by street or fire lane can't be counted in the frontage calculation.

 

[ADAguy]

As to your fence, is it of non-combustable material? Do gates have panic hardware? Accessible surface material?