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deli or restaurant

D

digger106

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
3
ok here it goes.

i am in kansas city, kansas, a deli business is up for sale, it has been a deli for over 15 years, the owner states that a restroom is not needed for customers due to the "deli" name. it does have one but it is in the back and you have to walk thru part of the kitchen. and you also have to step up on a landing to get to it. i have not talked to the owner of the building yet to talk over the lease, i was under the impression that if you have sit down areas you have to provide a restroom and knowing this will not pass ada i am concerned with the building not meeting codes.

thanks

bob
 
Firstly, welcome!

Secondly, find out where the code enforcement or city planning department is located. Walk in, introduce yourself and ask them about what you would need to do about restrooms. Whatever the response is, try to get it in writing. On letterhead, with a sgnature.
 
Digger - thanks for coming to this forum for help. Mac is exactly right; you really should talk with the local building official, because not every city does things the same way.

I can tell you that in my city, if you purchase an existing, operating building/business, and don't make substantial changes, we would not require any changes unless there were life safety code violations.

Hope this helps.
 
* * * *

Welcome "digger106 " to The Codes Forum! :cool:

I too concur with the other esteemed forum members. Change

of ownership would not prompt any changes, unless there are

life safety / health dept. / food handling issues.



* * * *
 
digger106 - you mentioned the magic word "ADA". ADA will lead you to just one subset of the overall requirements for access for persons with disabilities. Please know that:

(1) there are multiple and sometimes overlapping requirements for accessibility. People use "ADA" as a shorthand nickname, but that is too limiting and misleading if you're looking for a legal answer.

(2) The local building official enforces certain types of accessibility codes, but typically does not - and cannot - enforce ADA, which is civil law, not building codes. You probably will not find a guaranteed one-stop shop within the government for all yor accessibility questions.

(3) ADA gets enforced by the courts, i.e. when someone decides to sue you because they believe you've discriminated against them due to their disability.

(4) If the local building official the building official agrees that you don't have to let ANY public use the restroom, then it is IMO unlikely that a general-public person with a disability could claim they were treated differently than any other member of the public.

(5) If you allow employees to use the restroom (and your health code probably says that you must), then it may be possible for an employee (or rejected job applicant) with a disability to claim discrimination vs. an employee without a disability.

Conclusion: the local building official can only give you part of the picture, regarding certain types of building codes. If you also want to complete the picture with a free opinion on the applicablity of ADA, you can call the Great Plains ADA Center, 1-800-949-4232, or see www.adaproject.org
 
thanks for the advice of where to start, it is greatly appreciated. if things progress i will try and keep the board updated. i try and cover all my bases before going for the home run.
 
digger106 said:
ok here it goes.i am in kansas city, kansas, a deli business is up for sale, it has been a deli for over 15 years, the owner states that a restroom is not needed for customers due to the "deli" name. it does have one but it is in the back and you have to walk thru part of the kitchen. and you also have to step up on a landing to get to it. i have not talked to the owner of the building yet to talk over the lease, i was under the impression that if you have sit down areas you have to provide a restroom and knowing this will not pass ada i am concerned with the building not meeting codes.

thanks

bob
Click to expand...
Under ADA Title III the tenant [as well as the owner] of a "place of public accommodation" is obligated to provide accessibility.

A place of public accommodation is basically anything other than a dwelling or place of worship.

I recommend speaking with an attorney familiar with these matters.

Speaking with the Building Department is free, and that is the appropriate price base on the protection their advice provides in regard to ADA.
 
brudgers - I understood it to be a multi-part-part issue.

1. Is the deli required to provide accessible services for the public? (answer: maybe/maybe not per local code; yes per ADA)

2. Is one of the services a deli is required to provide supposed to be a public bathroom, in addition to the retail service? (answer: ask your building official)

3. If the answer to #2 is yes, then is this public bathroom required to be accessible? (yes per ADA)

4. Is the deli required to have an employee bathroom? (answer: ask your building offical and health department; probably yes)

5. If the answer to #4 is yes, then is this employee bathroom required to be accessible? (yes per ADA)
 
The inaccessible bathroom is a liability irrespective of if toilet facilities for customers are required.

The inaccessible bathroom is a liability irrespective of if toilet facilities for employees are required.

There is no possible set of local or state ordinances, codes, statutes or regulations which remove the liability associated with the property.

The liability runs with the real property.

And any leaseholder becomes party to it.
 
welcome, digger.

ADA is civil rights legislation for the building official/city not really to worry about IF they have a policy on existing buildings and relying on the "technically infeasible" clause. There are several businesses in the jurisdiction where I work that do not even have employee restrooms... but the building is 200 years old and not techically feasible to add said facilities (go to the "mall" across the street). Which is completely an acceptable answer for the building department (maybe not to DOJ, but DOJ happens to have their HQ in the same jurisdiction).
 
thanks for all the info and advice it is really appreciated, just trying to get a feel for what maybe to come. i found this bb by doing a yahoo search for codes.
 
being able to anticipate potential problems is a big part of being effective in the construction industry, so kudos to you for finding us. None of us is going to have THE answer you need, but most of us have been down the same path you are on (in one way or another).. learning from what we know (or learn the hard way) will certainly open your eyes.
 
"technically infeasible" is a misused and misunderstood term by many. If you have the square footage in the building even if it takes some of the area from the customer or other work spaces then it is not technically infeasible to comply with ADA. Technically infeasible is basically having to do with structural components. It is very hard to prove that you cannot provide accessibility per the Feds using the "technically infeasible" clause.

If you or the landlord do not provide accessibility for the physically disable then you are setting yourselves up for a date in court. If your plumbing code requires restrooms for either employees, customers or both then accessibility will be required to all restrooms that are being accessed by the employees and customers.
 
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