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Demarcation between "elementary" vs "secondary" school for fixture counts

Yikes

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Under California Plumbing Code table 4-1, what the the definition / division between "elemenary" school vs. "secondary" school. Specifically, do 7th and 8th graders fall into "elementary" or "secondary"?

I see in CBC Chapter 11 that for purposes of fixture size / mounting heights for access, age 12 and older is considered "adult". But I don't see a nexus between that and Table 4-1.
 
I don't have the CBC, are you saying that different age groups require different lighting levels??? If so, what would be the reasoning behind that?
 
No, this is a plumbing issue, not a lighting issue. For example, for toilet fixture counts for males is 1:30 for elementary and 1:40 for secondary. So, do 7th and 8th graders get a 1:30 count, or a 1:40 count? Looking for where I can find a code definition of "elementary" or "secondary" that applies here.
 
elementary school

NOUN:

  1. A school for the first four to eight years of a child's formal education, often including kindergarten.
  2. The first four to eight years of a child's formal education. Also called grade school, grammar school, primary school.
 
Yikes I would call it elementary reason being reason being they are not high schooler's. I'm thinking that high school would be secondary as it is not listed.
 
mtlogcabin - are we saying that the default is the general dictionary terminology because there is no plumbing code definition of "elementary"?
 
Yikes,

FWIW, from the 2003 A117.1 - Section 604.10 Water Closets and

Toilet Compartments for Children’s Use.

These provisions are intended for water closets and toilet compartments specifically designed for

children. The anticipated age is 3 to 12 years. The anthropometrics for children are different from

those of the average adult male. The U.S. Access Board has reviewed provisions for children.

Commentary Table C308.1 is based on that research and provides guidance on unobstructed reach

ranges for children according to age when building elements such as coat hooks or operable parts

are designed for use primarily by children. The dimensions apply to either forward or side reaches.

In addition, Table C604.10 provides guidance in applying the specifications for water closets for

children according to the age group served and reflects specifications that correspond to the age

of the primary use group. The specifications of one age group should be applied consistently in the

installation of water closets and related items. These tables are information only and are not

intended to present requirements.

604.10.1 General.

Accessible water closets and toilet compartments primarily for children’s use shall comply with

Section 604.10.

The standard does not require water closets or toilet compartments for children’s use; however,

if a designer wants to design for children (e.g., day care facilities, elementary schools) they

must follow all the provisions in Section 604.10 and the associated references. The exception

in Section 604.1 is a general reference to the child size provisions in Section 604.10.

Does this help? A "typical" 7th grader is 12 to 13 yrs. of age. I can't

imagine a 12 yr. old or a 13 yr. old using the same small sized fixture

as a 3+ yr. old.

.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yikes said:
mtlogcabin - are we saying that the default is the general dictionary terminology because there is no plumbing code definition of "elementary"?
You can according to Section 201.0 of the UPC which I thought the Californian Plumbing Code is based off of.

The fixture count is based on how often younger children may use the restroom versus older children it has nothing to do with the ANSI 604.10 Section.
 
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