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Demo of vestibule in vacant space

Nicole Brooks

Registered User
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
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6
Location
Baltimore
I have submitted a demo plan for a developer who wants to demolish the interior fit-out of a space in an industrial flex building to make it more marketable. The county plans reviewer is refusing to let us demo the vestibule because once the interior fit-out is gone, the space exceeds 3000 sf. His reasoning is that removal of the vestibule would cause a drain on neighboring tenants hvac. Please let me know your thoughts, this seems an odd demand. Obviously if a new tenant goes in the space and requires a vestibule per IECC, that will be addressed then.
 

mp25

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Joined
Jun 2, 2016
Messages
106
Location
Illinois
You are making a currently code compliant construction not code compliant by removing the vestibule.
I can see how this could be a gray area - however If i was a plan reviewer I would make the same comment and would ask that either the vestibule is kept or an air curtain installed in its place.
 

cda

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Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,966
Location
Basement
I have submitted a demo plan for a developer who wants to demolish the interior fit-out of a space in an industrial flex building to make it more marketable. The county plans reviewer is refusing to let us demo the vestibule because once the interior fit-out is gone, the space exceeds 3000 sf. His reasoning is that removal of the vestibule would cause a drain on neighboring tenants hvac. Please let me know your thoughts, this seems an odd demand. Obviously if a new tenant goes in the space and requires a vestibule per IECC, that will be addressed then.

So the plan reviewer is an energy engineer????

As in how does he know the energy balance will be thrown off????


Wonder how this space is connected to the rest of the building????

any floor plan to post??
 

JPohling

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Aug 16, 2011
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1,285
Location
San Diego
Just tell him you will be installing an air curtain as allowed by the 2021 code exception for a vestibule.
 

Sifu

Sawhorse
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Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,676
How does the plan reviewer know the future? The vestibule is required for a space that is open. A space plan with walls and doors defining offices or other rooms would not be counted in that 3000sf². A demo does not get a C/O, no occupants to provide HVAC for, IMHO no violation. I would make a red-line comment to alert any future build-out that a vestibule may be required. If the building department does it's job it will be recognized when the TI permit is applied for.
 

steveray

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Nov 25, 2009
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8,802
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West of the river CT
Actually, to play devils advocate....I Don't think here is anything in the IEBC or IECC existing that outright requires the vestibule to be reinstalled on a remodel....Without reading between the lines a bit. And/or somehow putting a condition on the demo that it would have to be reinstalled if required by the remodel...

811.1 Minimum requirements. Level 2 alterations to existing buildings or structures are permitted without requiring the entire building or structure to comply with the energy requirements of the International Energy Conservation Code or International Residential Code. The alterations shall conform to the energy requirements of the International Energy Conservation Code or International Residential Code as they relate to new construction only.
 

Sifu

Sawhorse
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Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,676
IECC C503 for existing buildings would seem to require that a vestibule is required with the exception that if the alteration complies with ANSI/ASHRAE/IESNA 90.1 then most requirements (402,403,405,405) do not need to be complied with. (402 is where vestibules live). I admit I have no idea what the 90.1 compliance looks like. Off the cuff, this looks like a little bit of a bust between the two codes, but to me the language is so sticky I'm not really sure. I understand the intentions with all of the provisions for existing buildings but, for me at least, I have a real hard time understanding what it all means.
 

steveray

Sawhorse
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Nov 25, 2009
Messages
8,802
Location
West of the river CT
Not exactly....

C503.1 General. Alterations to any building or structure shall comply with the requirements of the code for new construction. Alterations shall be such that the existing building or structure is no less conforming to the provisions of this code than the existing building or structure was prior to the alteration. Alterations to an existing building, building system or portion thereof shall conform to the provisions of this code as those provisions relate to new construction without requiring the unaltered portions of the existing building or building system to comply with this code. Alterations shall not create an unsafe or hazardous condition or overload existing building systems.
Exception:
4. Construction where the existing roof, wall or floor cavity is not exposed.

That would qualify under most Level 2 alterations I deal with.....
 
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