• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Doctors office & ada

RJJ

Co-Founder
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
2,940
Location
about 1' east of the white water
I have a small fitout for a Doctor who will have six exam rooms. Each room is designed to have an ada accessible sink.

Now the question has been raised that they want cabinets below the sink and no approach opening. I believe if you have a sink it must comply. If You think different please provide the section from 2009 IBC or A117.
 
2012 UIBC 1109.3 5% but not less than 1, it is a theme that is through the Accessible codes we enforce, like the parking, it does not require all parking spaces to be accessible but a percentage of them. Your scenario is the same thing, at least one (1) of the six would have to be accessible.
 
1103.2.3 Employee work areas.

Spaces and elements within employee work areas shall only be required to comply with Sections 907.9.1.2, 1007 and 1104.3.1 and shall be designed and constructed so that individuals with disabilities can approach, enter and exit the work area.
 
RJJ,

Will the 2010 ADA SAD also be applicable in your application? If so, then Section 606.2 will apply

to all sinks, in all Exam Rooms. A Forward Approach clearance must be provided, ..no side

approach! (i.e. - knee & toe clearances underneath each sink must be provided in each Exam

Room)

.
 
June 2007 Building Safety Journal

http://www.mrsc.org/artdocmisc/sinks.pdf

.... within a doctor’s examining room or a dental treatment area.

Full access must be provided to work areas that also function as public use spaces—such as examining rooms—but, in general, the sink or sinks in an examining or treatment room may be considered to be “elements” within an employee work area and therefore exempt from accessibility requirements per IBC Section 1103.2.3. However, if intended to be used by both employees and patients, sinks would need to be accessible per IBC Section 1109.3 and comply with ICC A117.1 Section 606.

This leads to questions like: “Is it more likely that a sink in a medical doctor’s examining room will be used by patients than one in a dentist’s treatment room?” Although the intuitive answer may be “yes,” that is no guarantee that the designer and users will all agree, while taking an “all or nothing” approach—either at least 5 percent but not less than one sink in every examining or treatment room must be accessible, or none are required to be accessible—is no less likely to result in conflicts. In such situations, a compromise solution should be considered. Allowing the designer some flexibility while assuring that a certain level of accessibility

is provided serves everyone’s best interests and will help the space function better over the long term.

One option would be to apply the scoping limits of IBC Section 1109.3 to either the total number of rooms or to each type of room rather than to each individual room. This will help assure that in every doctor’s or dentist’s office, at least one examining or treatment room containing a sink will serve the needs of any employee or patient who might need to use it.

Another option would be to permit the use of a parallel approach to the sinks instead of the forward approach required by ICC A117.1 Section 606.2. A parallel approach makes sink height and controls accessible while allowing the installation of cabinets underneath. If this option is allowed, it seems reasonable to require that all—or at least a higher percentage—of the sinks in examining or treatment rooms be accessible in this manner.

There are other possibilities for providing accessibility while facilitating flexibility. The code official may decide to allow a combination of the two previous options such that the sinks in some examining or treatment rooms provide a fully compliant forward approach and the remainder provide a parallel approach, or allow the use of removable base cabinets per ICC A117.1 Section 1003.11.5.

Disability advocates may not be completely pleased with some of these options, but at the very least they help illustrate how limiting code officials to an “all or nothing” prescriptive approach can sometimes have the unintended consequence of actually limiting flexibility to adapt to users’ needs, whereas compromise solutions may be available which ensure a level of accessibility that might otherwise not exist at all.

Conclusion

The appropriate application of IBC Sections 1109.3 and 1103.2.3 is not always cut-and-dried. However, by giving careful consideration to the individual situation and the potential long-term effects on both the project and the people who will be using it, it is possible to reach a solution that serves the best interests of everyone.

Whether required by the applicable code provisions and standards or not, making elements in accessible spaces accessible or adaptable facilitates the future accommodation of users. In the event that an employee needs accessible elements—even on a temporary basis—there will ideally be at least one work area available that can be adapted without requiring extensive, and often expensive, alterations. As such, where multiple work stations of the same type are provided, it may be a good idea to offer future flexibility by making a minimum of 5 percent of them accessible per ICC A117.1
 
I have had similar issues come up before. Would it be acceptable to provide removable cabinets as long as the floor and wall finishes are continued behind it? That way the end user could keep their extra storage but could also easily make the space fully accessible in the event that they hired a disabled employee in future.

Obviously this would be a special approval but would you even consider it?
 
Globe The section provided is what I would have applied. And Mark the post from the Building Safety Journal creates some ability to be flexible. I remember reading this back in 07. Great posts !
 
If the code official and the RDP disagree on "what is actually required", ..then what? Who gets

to decide on the path to compliance. The RDP will usually (not always) offer that "they're

saving their client money", while still being compliant, and too, ..they will be liable for their design

"if" litigation is ever brought.

I am looking for some more dialogue and guidance on this as I have plans for a medical

facility in my office right now, with this very application.

Thanks for the timely topic "RJJ".

.
 
I have had the discussion with several DP's.....they explain in writing with detail and a seal how they are satisfying the code, and I am good....As long as it remains gray...
 
Yes it seems a little gray and I am trying to work through it. If they provide a sink it must be accessible. Most doctors are not going to have an exam room that does not provide a place to wash hands.

The article form the safety journal is a great article, but it is not code!

The 5% I also do not think applies.
 
A similar request made to our office:

" provided a cabinet door with the toe kick attached to the door - so that when the doors are opened the required ADA roll-under forward approach at the sink is provided with the cabinet door handles are within reach ranges in accessibility code and can be opened easily by someone needing that extra space to get under the sink"





Francis

 
In PA we get audited and even a reasonable decision on the part of the code official is not permitted. You have to totally relay on L&I and I am reluctant to call them. They will give you advice, but will not put it in writing. Unless they write you up for missing something.
 
I do a significant amount of medical offices. We typically will provide 5% fully accessible exam room sinks. It is a grey area. We have never had any issues at all.
 
In researching the requirement for Accessibility compliance of the sinks in the Exam Rooms,

is the 5 % number a federal allowance (DOJ = 2010 ADA SAD), or does that number come

from the IBC or A117.1? Please cite the applicable section for reference. Thank You!

Essentially, if there is an Exemption from Accessible requirements in the IBC or A117.1,

..will the requirement still be there under the 2010 ADA SAD?

.
 
What if plans for "new" construction do not label the "one Accessible Exam Room"?
Then, does each Exam Room have to have a Forward Approach (compliant) sink,
according to Section 606.2 in the 2010 ADA SAD?

If the 2010 ADA SAD is THE last word in Accessibility; other than California, ..by
the Letter of that standard, wouldn't each sink in each Exam Room have to be
Forward Approach compliant?

Isn't this what some of us continuously debate / argue over, ..the actual written
standard vs. our interpretations / opinions of a standard?

Just trying to process of all this, so I can relay / discuss it with others. Thanks!
 
Mark I am on the same page. As Globe stated just trying to process all this even my own ?. Today I am going to focus just on the code sections and respond with a position and why! I will post for debate. Should prove interesting.
 
I see your logic. thats pretty much what we do. 5% of the exam rooms have accessible sinks so 5% are accessible rooms. It really does not work very well the way the rooms are used by the docs. There is no telling when a wheelchair user is going to roll in for an appointment and they do not set them aside, so its just random luck that they are available. Typically we run 3 exams per doc to allow them to work continuously, so really only one of the docs actually has the "accessible" room available. We are seeing a move back to wall hung sinks in exams and many exams now do not have sinks at all. All the docs think that the accessible sinks are completely unfounded and they would prefer we treat them as employee work areas.
 
JPohling said:
I see your logic. thats pretty much what we do. 5% of the exam rooms have accessible sinks so 5% are accessible rooms. It really does not work very well the way the rooms are used by the docs. There is no telling when a wheelchair user is going to roll in for an appointment and they do not set them aside, so its just random luck that they are available. Typically we run 3 exams per doc to allow them to work continuously, so really only one of the docs actually has the "accessible" room available. We are seeing a move back to wall hung sinks in exams and many exams now do not have sinks at all. All the docs think that the accessible sinks are completely unfounded and they would prefer we treat them as employee work areas.
That's why most doctors offices are fully accessible
 
Top