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Door Closers capable of providing ADA compliant opening force

T

thillhouse

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
6
Location
South East
We are in disagreement with our door hardware supplier as to the applicability and availability of door closures capable of meeting the ADA opening force requirements. We have a 3'-0" x 8'-0" 2-1/4" interior door with a concealed closure. The spec sheet says it can be provided with a Barrier Free function that allows it to meet the ADA required opening force of 5 lbs. However they add all kinds of disclaimers like it has to be a center hung door and that adequate control cannot be guarenteed during compliance with the ADA requirements. Is this truley a ADA acceptable closure? From what the hardware supplier is saying is that there are no closures that can provide ADA opening force for these doors.:banghd

Frustrated
 
I found another closer MFG that states:

"Any manual door closer, including those certified by BHMA to

conform to ANSI Standard A156.4, that is selected, installed and adjusted

based on ADA or other reduced opening force requirements may not provide

sufficient power to reliably close and latch a door."

Isn't the idea of a door closer to close and latch a door? Based on ADA requirements every interior door must meet the 5 LBS of force to open... (Unless it is a fire door or and exit door) Where does that leave us?
 
thillhouse,

What Codes are you using? Has your jurisdiction adopted the ANSI A117.1

(RE: Section 404.2.8 in the 2003 ICC/ANSI A117.1) ?

.
 
..and no door hardware suppliers in your area want to provide a guarantee

of the 5 lbs. opening force on their products?

.
 
Advisory 404.2.9 Door and Gate Opening Force. The maximum force pertains to the continuous application of force necessary to fully open a door, not the initial force needed to overcome the inertia of the door. It does not apply to the force required to retract bolts or to disengage other devices used to keep the door in a closed position.

door closer ada compliant

https://www.google.com/search?q=door+closer+ada+compliant&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=DKUaUcORCKjkiwLW2YGQBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1066&bih=523#imgrc=AlwTJTo7emBQIM%3A%3BYlvTlQDXx1J3SM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwa2.www.americanhotel.com%252Fimages%252FThImages%252FPMN900P.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.americanhotel.com%252FProducts%252FDoor-Closers-ADA-Compliant-Adjustable-Heavy-Duty-Aluminum-Finish.aspx%253FR%253DT3A13-1900BFDAAL%3B300%3B300
 
They will guarentee 5lbs but not closing at 5lbs...

DORMA:

Although DORMA RTS88 BFI/BFE Series closers comply with

barrier-free opening force restrictions, adequate control can not be

guaranteed during compliance of these restrictions.

Ingersol Rand - LCN:

"Any manual door closer, including those certified by BHMA to

conform to ANSI Standard A156.4, that is selected, installed and adjusted

based on ADA or other reduced opening force requirements may not provide

sufficient power to reliably close and latch a door."

Seargent ASSA ABLOY:

ADA Compliance: Door closers, adjusted to meet ADA conditions or other reduced opening force requirements, may lack adequate closing power to properly latch a door when draft or other conditions exist.
 
thillhouse said:
They will guarentee 5lbs but not closing at 5lbs...DORMA:

Although DORMA RTS88 BFI/BFE Series closers comply with

barrier-free opening force restrictions, adequate control can not be

guaranteed during compliance of these restrictions.

Ingersol Rand - LCN:

"Any manual door closer, including those certified by BHMA to

conform to ANSI Standard A156.4, that is selected, installed and adjusted

based on ADA or other reduced opening force requirements may not provide

sufficient power to reliably close and latch a door."

Seargent ASSA ABLOY:

ADA Compliance: Door closers, adjusted to meet ADA conditions or other reduced opening force requirements, may lack adequate closing power to properly latch a door when draft or other conditions exist.
Click to expand...
That is their way of cya from a ADA lawsuit
 
Full disclosure: I work for Ingersoll Rand (LCN). The problem is that when you are only allowed 5 pounds of opening force, you only get a portion of that as closing force - I think it's about 60%. In a perfect world, where the doors are hung properly, swing freely, the latches aren't sticky, and there's no air pressure or weatherstripping that requires additional force, the door will close. But if you only have a few pounds of closing force to work with, it may not be enough to overcome any one of those issues or especially a combination.

Concealed closers, at least LCN's, complicate things a bit because where surface-mounted closers are field-adjustable so that you can fine-tune the opening/closing force and get things (hopefully) working, concealed closers are not adjustable to the same extent. If you order a "size 1" closer, it may not have quite enough force to get the door closed. If you order a "size 3" closer, it won't meet the 5-pound requirement. Most surface-mounted closers are adjustable from size 1-5 or a similar range of spring sizes.

I don't think I've really helped solve the problem, but hopefully this explains why the CYA clause exists.
 
Lori,

As one of the resident door experts on this Forum, what do you recommend in this application?

Thanks!

.
 
globe trekker said:
Lori, As one of the resident door experts on this Forum, what do you recommend in this application? Thanks!
Click to expand...
With adjustable surface-mounted closers I haven't had a problem, so my preference would be to use a closer that is field-adjustable. I know this isn't always possible...I've specified hardware for hundreds of projects, some of which required concealed closers because of aesthetics. I would limit the concealed closers as much as possible, but when they're necessary and the doors are required to meet the 5-pound force requirement, I would order a size 1 closer with the understanding that the door has to be working perfectly with nothing binding, no air pressure problems, etc. For doors that don't need to meet 5 pounds (fire doors, exterior doors in most jurisdictions) I would use the size recommended by the manufacturer for the door width. A size 3 is pretty typical for a 3' interior door, but the manufacturers have charts in the catalogs which help you to pick the right size.
 
Thanks Lori that is what my understanding is too, however I'm not sure why anyone would sell a non ADA compliant closer. Almost every non fire rated door in any building these days has to be ADA accessible. If a concealed closer cannot close a door and meet the Federal ADA requirements, why bother making one? I'm not criticizing Ingersoll-Rand specifically but just about any manufacturer. :banghd
 
thillhouse,

Not answering for Lori (or anyone else), but IMO, it has to do with litigation.

If a door closer is installed that does not meet ADA compliance, then there

could be grounds for a lawsuit for (blatantly) not installing them, however,

if a closer is installed and there is language on the product indicating ADA

compliance to the extent that the installation can be made compliant,

then any potential litigation could be summarily dismissed or the financial

penalties could be greatly reduced.

In some words, the attempt to be compliant would be made. Even if the

5 lbs. (max) of opening force is not achieved, in the eyes of the court,

it will appear better than no attempt at compliance at all.

Maybe our resident ADA / Accessible expert "mark handler" (and others)

will chime in..

.
 
Maybe I'm way off base here, but would another option be something to consider such as a power-assist or low-energy door device? Use of either of those will get the door to meet accessibility requirements on the opening force.
 
globe trekker said:
"...opening force ..."
Click to expand...
The maximum force pertains to the continuous application of force necessary to fully open a door, not the initial force needed to overcome the inertia of the door not the opening force, it is the force to fully open a door.
 
mark handller,

I stand corrected! Thank you for the correct interpretation of the 5 lb. requirement!

.
 
IMHO

They need to comply. the Manufactures of closers are advertising ADA compliance, they should comply.

They comply or don't comply. There will be some site environmental conditions where there is a differential in air pressure in different areas. They need to balance the air pressure or build vestibules.

For Manufactures of closers to continue advertising ADA compliance, and then issue CYA notices is a Crock. sorry Lori.
 
mark handler said:
The maximum force pertains to the continuous application of force necessary to fully open a door, not the initial force needed to overcome the inertia of the door not the opening force, it is the force to fully open a door.
Click to expand...
Is there any requirement for the maximum force allowed to overcome the inertia of the door assembly? So you measure the 5 lbs once the door is moving? and it just needs to be 5 lbs max to keep it moving? seems pretty subjective as to when to start your measurement and impossible to determine precisely when the inertia is overcome and your just keeping it moving.
 
JPohling said:
Is there any requirement for the maximum force allowed to overcome the inertia of the door assembly? So you measure the 5 lbs once the door is moving? and it just needs to be 5 lbs max to keep it moving? seems pretty subjective as to when to start your measurement and impossible to determine precisely when the inertia is overcome and your just keeping it moving.
Click to expand...
No

Yes

Yes
 
JPohling said:
Is there any requirement for the maximum force allowed to overcome the inertia of the door assembly? So you measure the 5 lbs once the door is moving? and it just needs to be 5 lbs max to keep it moving? seems pretty subjective as to when to start your measurement and impossible to determine precisely when the inertia is overcome and your just keeping it moving.
Click to expand...
Inertia is overcome once the door is moving. Typically you will see the meter spike when first starting to move, then it will balance out.
 
mark handler said:

IMHOThey need to comply. the Manufactures of closers are advertising ADA compliance, they should comply.

They comply or don't comply. There will be some site environmental conditions where there is a differential in air pressure in different areas. They need to balance the air pressure or build vestibules.

For Manufactures of closers to continue advertising ADA compliance, and then issue CYA notices is a Crock. sorry Lori.
Click to expand...
Well, okay. How about the design professional scheduling doors that are NOT 135 pounds or so. This circumstance, a 3080 2-1/4" door, and hardware that baby up with a COH closer to be ADA compliant? Come on, give me a running chance.
 
mark handler said:
IMHOThey need to comply. the Manufactures of closers are advertising ADA compliance, they should comply.

They comply or don't comply. There will be some site environmental conditions where there is a differential in air pressure in different areas. They need to balance the air pressure or build vestibules.

For Manufactures of closers to continue advertising ADA compliance, and then issue CYA notices is a Crock. sorry Lori.
Click to expand...
It's not a question of whether the manufacturers sell ADA-compliant closers. They do. It's a question of whether an ADA-compliant closer will be able to get the door closed. Here is the line that thillhouse pasted from the LCN catalog: "Any manual door closer, including those certified by BHMA to conform to ANSI Standard A156.4, that is selected, installed and adjusted based on ADA or other reduced opening force requirements may not provide sufficient power to reliably close and latch a door." It doesn't say that the closer might not meet ADA. It says that the closer might not close the door.

5 pounds of opening force equates to about 3 pounds of closing force, and 3 pounds is not enough to close every door. Most, yes. But not all. And It's really not the closer's fault, but the closer gets the blame when the door won't close. Architects don't want to hear that they need to build a vestibule. They want to know why the closer doesn't work, when in reality the cause of the problem is the sticky latch, air pressure, gasketing, misaligned door, or a combination of factors.
 
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