• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Doors in series?

steveray

steveray

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
13,686
Location
West of the river CT
BathROOM door and stall door (straight ahead from room door) considered doors in series? Pretty sure I know and it is right there in writing, but I get surprised when stuff like this gets submitted by DP's....
 
Not sure if it applies

1008.1.8 Door arrangement. Space between two doors in a series shall be 48 inches (1219 mm) minimum plus the width of a door swinging into the space. Doors in a series shall swing either in the same direction or away from the space between the doors.

Exceptions:

1. The minimum distance between horizontal sliding power-operated doors in a series shall be 48 inches (1219 mm).

2. Storm and screen doors serving individual dwelling units in Groups R-2 and R-3 need not be spaced 48 inches (1219 mm) from the other door.

3. Doors within individual dwelling units in Groups R-2 and R-3 other than within Type A dwelling units.
 
I'm going to resurrect this old thread with a follow-up question: How do you know when doors are intended to be used "in series", versus "just happen to be close to each other"?

Take a look at this illustration of an accessible hotel room from the 2010 ADA standards:

plan3b_gst-rm.jpg


http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/images/plan3b_gst-rm.jpg

It shows the door from the bathroom with clearances overlapping the entry door and what appears to be a second door likely leading to another hotel room or part of a suite. Also, there's clearly not 48" between them. How is a determination made whether or not they are "in series"?
 
Looks like a normal hotel room.

Door to get in is just that, normally shut

The one in the wall more than likely does a 180, but normally closed
 
Good question

imho

private space, use of one door does not nessisaraly require the entry tthough another door? In a commercial vestibule it does.
 
The ADASAD CONFLICTS with the IBC 1008.1.8 Door arrangement examples. The bath and adjoining unit door interferes with the egress out of the unit.
 
cda - the examples in 1008.1.8 in the link you sent are not able to justify the arrangement shown in the ADA guidelines.

ADAguy - exception #3 is for doors in individual dwelling units that are OTHER THAN adaptable or accessible (type A) dwelling units.

Mark: so what you are saying is, I found an error in the standards and guidelines published on the government's ADA website?

If so, do I get a cash reward, like those hackers that get paid to find security vulnerabilities in government computer networks?
 
cda - the examples in 1008.1.8 in the link you sent are not able to justify the arrangement shown in the ADA guidelines.ADAguy - exception #3 is for doors in individual dwelling units that are OTHER THAN adaptable or accessible (type A) dwelling units.

Mark: so what you are saying is, I found an error in the standards and guidelines published on the government's ADA website?

If so, do I get a cash reward, like those hackers that get paid to find security vulnerabilities in government computer networks?
Click to expand...
I was just sending Stevie Ray example of door in series, which I would say is not what is in the hotel room diagram
 
Interesting plan Steve, food for thought.

Brings to mind a 1924 apartment house I surveyed yesterday. 32" doors from the common hallway, would it be seen as a hardship to have to change out the hinges for laybacks, (can't remove the doorstops) and to replace the knob sets (crystals) with mortise? only for the accessible units and not the rest (10 units per floor, 2 stories, no elevator) ? Wait until a disabled tenant applies and then only their unit (landlord pays for corridor door and tenant pays for accommodations?)

Landlord hit with a suit by a "tester (disabled)" working for a law firm seeking to plow new fields. Used websites and Google maps to identify potential buildings. Filed in Federal but seeking Unrhu damages.
 
The doors in the plan Steveray posted would be considered inseries unless there is a turnaround space outside the door swings.

The plan Yikes posted meets the IBC, as long as the bathroom and adjoining room doors swing 180 degrees. The required corridor width is 36", IBC 1005.7.1 says "Doors, when fully opened, shall not reduce the required width by more than 7 inches (178 mm). Doors in any position shall not reduce the required width by more than one-half." This requires a 4'-6" wide corridor when a 36" door swings into it. The minimum to get a 2" frame + 34" door + 18" maneuvering space is also 4'-6".
 
Steve,

Shower does no meet code

Is it commercial? Residential?

If SF Residential, series issue NOT Applicable.

Make it a single user Restroom. A case could be made that the user must close the exterior door before opening the interior door. Both could have closers.
 
Thanks Mark, they came in with this revised plan on Thursday at about 4 for a Friday morning inspection and said "we added a shower"...and I told them it needed to be accessible. It is an office building. I can't get the cocktail napkins to go through the scanner to post a residential plan... :)
 
An accessible route as part of a circulation path may lead to bathrooms consisting of accessible elements and spaces.

ICC A117.1 401.1 Scope. Accessible routes required by the scoping provisions adopted by the administrative authority shall comply with the applicable provisions of Chapter 4.

IBC 1104.5 Location. Accessible routes shall coincide with or be located in the same area as a general circulation path. Where the circulation path is interior, the accessible route shall also

be interior. Where only one accessible route is provided, the accessible route shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, restrooms, closets or similar spaces.

CIRCULATION PATH. An exterior or interior way of passage from one place to another for pedestrians.

Let me know if I missed something.
 
Thanks Mark' date=' they came in with this revised plan on Thursday at about 4 for a Friday morning inspection and said "we added a shower"...and I told them it needed to be accessible. It is an office building. I can't get the cocktail napkins to go through the scanner to post a residential plan... :) [/quote']Office building? Is the shower for office workers?

open to the public?
Click to expand...
 
Office building? Is the shower for office workers?

open to the public?
Click to expand...
It is accessed by the common corridor...Not sure how the use would be limited. Open to whoever is in the building IMO. 1109.2(?) gives you the partial gimme for "private" bathrooms, but mentions nothing of showers.
 
Does anyone have a link to a diagram that shows the correct way to measure the 48" spacing requirement for doors in series when the doors are in a vestibule and they are 90 degrees to each other? What I am describing is a typical restroom vestibule situation. All the diagrams I see are for doors where the walls are parallel to each other.
 
for this section of the code, i've interpreted it as saying that there needs to be enough room for a wheelchair to be located outside of the swing of the doors. In odd shaped vestibules with angled walls, i've showed the arc of doors being open 90 degrees, a 30x48 space outside of those arcs and a turning space (that could overlap the other clearances). I would consider that meeting the intent of the code, as it provides a person in a wheelchair space to be outside of the doors swing with both doors in the open position..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top