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Drain for indoor water feature?

E

earshavewalls

Bronze Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
77
Location
Southern California
This is a first for me. I have a commercial plan for a new restaurant. They intend to install an indoor water feature that is a waterfall into a pool. At my first plan check they were utilizing a poorly designed combination waste/vent system. I just got the plans back for second check and they omitted the drain for this feature, but instead are now showing a floor cleanout at the base of the feature without any drain.

I cannot find a code section that requires a drain for such applications (2007 California Plumbing Code...based on 2006 UPC). I am NOT permitting the cleanout to be installed beneath the feature, as this would make it inaccessible, but I truly believe that a drain is needed here. Can anyone out there point me in the right direction? If there IS no code requirement for a drain to be provided, please let me know so that I do not make the engineer do something unnecessary.

Been doing this for 8 years now, and this is the first one of these I've seen WITHOUT a drain.

Thanks
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

1. Does the pool supply the water for the water feature?

2. Does the water feature retain water that the pool drain could not drain (assuming the pool has a drain)?

2. Could you use a pump to drain the water feature?
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

Wayne,

Per chance, are there any manufact. specs available for to review?

There are a lot a myriad of designs and features available that incorporate

no drains or supply lines in them. Simply place them where you want,

fill them with water and plug them in. Are you using Art. 682 [ in the `08

NEC ] for your electrical requirements?

 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

No manufacturer information provided at all. That was one of my many comments on this review. I have required a drain. They have water supplied to the feature, so they need a drain. It is inside a new restaurant.

They have been dancing around this plan check pretty crazily.....making arbitrary changes between plan checks without noting or clouding any revisions. It has been a challenging review, to say the least.

I will post the results later. We are going into our third check now.

Thanks
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

Your original post said you were not aware of a code section that required a drain. What changed your mind and what code section are you now enforcing?
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

You would have to determine that the pond/waterfall is a plumbing fixture.

A mechanism which both receives and discharges wastes and water into a drainage system. If it’s small I would say no. if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck then it might be a fixture.

2007 California plumbing Code

304.0 Connections to Plumbing System Required. All plumbing fixtures, drains, appurtenances, and appliances, used to receive or discharge liquid wastes or sewage, shall be connected properly to the drainage system of the building or premises, in accordance with the requirements of this code.

406.0 Special Fixtures and Specialties.

406.1 Water and Waste Connections. Baptisteries, ornamental and lily ponds, aquaria, ornamental fountain basins, and similar fixtures and specialties requiring water and/ or waste connections shall be submitted for approval to the Authority Having Jurisdiction prior to installation.
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

I am requiring a drain because this water feature meets the definition of a Special Fixture (as Batwood mentioned) based on CPC 406.1. They have not yet provided information on the operation of the system or even the location of the pump.

The designer took out the original drain shown for this feature (on the first set that was submitted) because he was attempting to use a combination waste/vent branch to drain to the sanitary sewer, but did not understand how to size the piping and for some reason just took it out, replaced the drain with a symbol for a floor cleanout (located beneath the feature.......not accessible)(what do you think will be going in after final?). I will see what type of response the comment generates. This project has been presented to our department in a "knee-jerk" fashion with changes popping up randomly with each resubmittal.

We'll see what happens.
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

Emergency eyewash stations and emergency showers do not require floor drains.
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

I understand that. My point is it sounds like we may be requiring something that we shouldn't be requiring.
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

I would recommend to the designer that he removes the water service to the water feature or comply with section 406.1 of the CPC. Is there a pump room that serves the water feature? If there is there probably is a floor drain in there. He could add a floor sink and use an indirect waste.

Just for information here are the requirements for eye wash stations. You wouldn’t want the chemicals to inter the sanitary sewer that’s why there is no drain.

2007 California mechanical Code

1130.0 Chemical Treatment Systems.

Chemical treatment systems shall comply with the Fire Code. When chemicals used present a contact hazard to personnel, approved emergency eye-wash and shower facilities shall be installed.

1129.0 Drainage.

Drains, overflows, and blow-down provisions shall have an indirect connection to an approved disposal location. Discharge of chemical waste shall be as approved by the appropriate regulatory authority.
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

skip,

I don't know for sure, but I think that Batwood meant that the chemicals being washed from the eyes

[ or other body parts of exposure ] could enter the drainage system, however minute in quantity. Just saying... ;)

.
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

I thought skip was just teasing me. :roll:

A better comparison would have been for a pool. Does your pool require a water supply and a drain or do people just run the garden hose to it to fill it up and then pump it out to the curb if they have to drain it?

;)
 
Re: Drain for indoor water feature?

Batwood, I was just joking. Eye wash was the first fixture that came to my mind that does not require a drain :lol:
 
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