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Dumb commercial truck section

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
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Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,127
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
A few years ago I started a discusin on this site about a fire house that had an fire area over 5,000 sq ft. that had fire trucks. Using the following section i made them put in sprinklers. They where calling it S-2 but I made them change it to s-1 because of this section. . All most everyone on this forum agreed with me that they needed sprinklers. This also started a long discussion on what is a commercial truck which didn't seem to go anywhere because no one knew for sure but all agreeded that fire trucks where commercal trucks. We where using the 2006 IBC then and now we use the 2009 IBC but this section did not change.

903.2.9 #4 (provide sprinklers) in group S-1 fire area used for the storage of commercial trucks or buses where the fire area exceeds 5,000 sq. ft.

Now I have another one but it was pointed out to the 2009 commentary under section 311 "S-2":

"Open and enclosed parking garages are classified as group S-2 occupancies as long as no repair activities as discussed in the commentary to section 311.2 occur in such buildings. A garage in a fire station, for example, that undertakes maintenance and repairs limited to cleaning, hose change, water fill, fire equipment upgrades or wheel removal for repair off premise would not constitute the same hazard associated with repair garages and would be appropriately classifed as a S-2 classifiction."

So what do they mean in section 903.2.9 by "storage of commercial trucks"? It does not say repairs of trucks.
 
Is a fire station a parking garage???

Also if a R than sprinklers come in
 
It is quite clear the intent of the code is if a fire area is over 5,000 sq ft and commercial trucks or buses are parked and/or repaired within that fire area it shall be sprinkled.

2009 IBC

903.2.10.1 Commercial parking garages. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for storage of commercial trucks or buses where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet

903.2.9 Group S-1. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout all buildings containing a Group S-1 occupancy where one of the following conditions exists: [F]4. A Group S-1 fire area used for the storage of commercial trucks or buses where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).903.2.9.1 Repair garages

4. A Group S-1 fire area used for the repair of commercial trucks or buses where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).
 
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Rick,

It sounds as though; in your 2nd application, that you have another S-1

that will store the [ Commercial ] vehicles.....Also, you can cite the 2

sections that **mtlogcabin** provided for justification.....If the other

side wants to argue / defend their position, let them cite the applicable

codes.

I'm guessing that the Fire Code Official may be involved in all of this.

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The commentary is just an opinion you spend money for. It carries no more weight than anyone's comment on this board. The AHJ is the final authority on the application of a code section.
 
Greetings

This is a prime example of why I try to stay out of the commentary altogether. When push comes to a shove, you can't take the commentary in the court room with you...... I'm with MT, let the AHJ decide.

BSSTG
 
Is an interpretation of the proposed definition (approved as) submitted below needed to clarify the inclusion of fire apparatus?

F128 – 13

903.2.9 (IBC [F] 903.2.9), 903.2.9.1 (IBC [F] 903.2.9.1), 903.2.10.1 (IBC [F] 903.2.10.1), 202





Proponent: Adolf Zubia. Chairman IAFC Fire and Life Safety Section, representing ICC Fire Code Action



SECTION 202

GENERAL DEFINITIONS



​




COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE. A motor vehicle used to transport passengers or property where the motor vehicle:

1. Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more; or

2. Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.



Reason: The current text is not clear on what constitutes a “commercial” truck or bus. The intent of this proposal is that sprinklers should be installed based on the size of the vehicle. A definition of a commercial motor vehicle is needed. These criteria are from the DOT regulations 49CFR390.5, and correlate with IBC Section 1607.7. (See S70-09/10, AMPC1.)

The fuel load is significantly increased with these larger vehicles. Large commercial vehicles typically have an increased quantity of fuel in the vehicle fuel tanks. The vehicles may have larger amounts of upholstered interior furnishings. Large commercial vehicles may be storing or transporting additional combustibles on-board which also increases the fuel load and fire duration.

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/Documents/2012-2014Cycle/Proposed-B/05-IFC.pdf



F128-13 .............. .........................AS

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/Documents/2012-2014Cycle/Proposed-B/Results/GroupB-Final.pdf

 
for all of you who do not a know what a CMV is, It is now defined in the 2015

gross weight of 10000 pounds

or

carries 16 or more passengers including driver

CLEAR????
 
mtlogcabin said:
So every 15 passenger van is a commercial vehicleCan't wait for that one and the problems it will cause.
Click to expand...
Just take the back seat out

Than14 1/2 passenger

Maybe in the 2018 will come up with occupant load factor ??
 
S-2 garage but sprinklers still required

From 2009 IBC 2012 same

903.2.10 Group S-2 enclosed parking garages. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings classified as enclosed parking garages in accordance with Section 406.4 as follows: [F]

1. Where the fire area of the enclosed parking garage exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2); or

2. Where the enclosed parking garage is located beneath other groups.

Exception: Enclosed parking garages located beneath Group R-3 occupancies.

903.2.10.1 Commercial parking garages. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for storage of commercial trucks or buses where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2). [F]
 
This truck is 10,500.....does that mean that my garage is undergoing a change of use everytime I pull it in and out? Damnit.....now I need an accessible route and a 2hr fire barrier....I will just have to leave it under the tent garage!



If it quacks like a commercial vehicle..........Is it owned by a business? Is it used for business?
 
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[h=3]What is the gross vehicle weight rating of a Ford F-350 Super Duty four-door with four-wheel drive?[/h]

questionBottom.gif


John, Roanoke, Va.

​


The gross vehicle weight rating is 10,600 pounds for the F-350 Super Duty crew cab with four-wheel drive and the 6.75-foot cargo box. The GVWR for the same truck with the 8-foot cargo box is 10,800 pounds.

That is about 50% of all pickups in Montana

 
I thought that was just for the duallys......my 2001 F350 is 9900....SRW and getting lighter every day as it dies a slow painful rusty death....
 
As you can see all 350 or 3500 series are over 10,001 GVWR

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-tow-vehicles-classes.shtml

So I guess you will need to post the parking garage for no vehicles over 10,000 GVWR

Dumb definition

Large commercial vehicles typically have an increased quantity of fuel in the vehicle fuel tanksAll farming communities the pickups regardless of the size have a 50 or 100 gallon tank in the bed for refueling the farm equipment.City boys can't see past the compacts they drive.
Click to expand...
 
With the F350 it gets even more complex as you can order it with a 10 000 or 9900 or 11 400 GVW package for regulatory purposes.
 
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