DWV down the middle of townhouses

[jar546]

After you rotate this PDF counterclockwise, take a look at my primative drawing.

We are only looking at the way the DWV is run. The top one shows the DWV being run under the basement slab down the middle of the townhouse foundation from t-house to t-house.

The bottom shows a typical setup where the dwv is run out to the street and does not cross into anyone elses property.

Are both code compliant? This was a previously debatable subject.

http://www.inspectpa.com/download/ThousePlumb.pdf

jeff

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Depends if a property line exist between the Townhomes and they are on separate lots

IPC 701.3 Separate sewer connection.

Every building having plumbing fixtures installed and intended for human habitation, occupancy or use on premises abutting on a street, alley or easement in which there is a public sewer shall have a separate connection with the sewer. Where located on the same lot, multiple buildings shall not be prohibited from connecting to a common building sewer that connects to the public sewer.

 

[jar546]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Individually owned townhouses with zero separation between lot lines. The IPC would not apply as this is governed by the IRC. I thought there was similar language in the IRC but cannot find it.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

The IRC recognizes townhouse as a single building. Check with local sewer authority they may require seperate drains.

Personally I think you have 4 individual SFR's with zero setback

 

[jar546]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Almos forgot about the sewer authority angle. Thanks.

Just can't find anything in the IRC unlike the language in the IPC

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Thought about this last night and since they are on individual lots there would need to be an easment to allow the sewer line to extend across another owners property. Now most easments would restrict the placement of a building on a utility easment.

If TH3 has a sewer blockage or line break located under the slab then TH1 & 2 owners need a legal way to enter that structure dig up the basement and make the repairs.

Since the IRC is silent on this I would use the IPC lanquage for the logic of why the sewer running down the inside of the building is a bad design

 

[rktect 1]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Don't do it. Once there is a problem with the DWV, as has been pointed out, there will be legal issues for the owners eventually.

Recently we had a 4 unit townhouse where the ac units were located on the far sides of the building. Slab on grade construction with the lines embedded in the slab. The lines broke for one of the interior units and the only way to fix the line would be to break up the outer most units concrete slab. Didn't happen. The lady complained all summer long that she didn't have AC and couldn't live without it. I had to explain to her that AC is a luxury item. If it had been heating I probably could have helped her out with the associations rules of not allowing anything be placed on the exterior of the units. She just wasn't allowed to fix the ac lines. Last time I heard that is.

 

[Mule]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Okay........what about going at it this way?

SECTION P2602

INDIVIDUAL WATER SUPPLY AND SEWAGE

DISPOSAL

P2602.1 General. The water-distribution and drainage system

of any building or premises where plumbing fixtures are

installed shall be connected to a public water supply or sewer

system, respectively, if available. When either a public

water-supply or sewer system, or both, are not available, or

connection to them is not feasible, an individual water supply

or individual (private) sewage-disposal system, or both, shall

be provided.

So the first rule is to discharge to a Public Sewer "if available".

Okay, a public sewer system is available.

BUILDING SEWER. That part of the drainage system that

extends from the end of the building drain and conveys its discharge

to a public sewer, private sewer, individual sewage-disposal

system or other point of disposal.

PUBLIC SEWER. A common sewer directly controlled by

public authority.

So ??????????????????

 

[Frank]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Would the common use lines be considered a private sewer under the control of the association?

EW is not a good design.

 

[SCBO1]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Jar,

One drawing is an interior drain line which would allow water service in the same trench IPC 603.2, the other depending how far out from the building would be a building sewer. The sewer line use to start 2' from the building (not sure if that's in the code anymore). Odds are each unit has it's own water meter but only one sewer connection to the municipal sewer system. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would purchase a unit with this setup with the chance the neighbor kids are dropping tennis balls in the toilet stopping up the other units drain system. At least the one drawing has the sewer lines in the yard for the backhoe operator's convenience with the chance the units could be sold separately. Hope you don't enforce the sewer inline backflow devise on the the other drawing! This is an ongoing problem with duplexes, "they call them condo's here" so the realtor can make a sale.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Since a building drain definition is in the singular logic would concur you cannot connect multiple housing units to the building drain.

BUILDING DRAIN. The lowest piping that collects the discharge from all other drainage piping inside the house and extends 30 inches (762 mm) in developed length of pipe, beyond the exterior walls and conveys the drainage to the building sewer.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

The IRC recognizes townhouse as a single building. Check with local sewer authority they may require seperate drains.Personally I think you have 4 individual SFR's with zero setback

I would use this from the IRC:

R317.2 Townhouses.

Each townhouse shall be considered a separate building and shall be separated by fire-resistance-rated wall assemblies meeting the requirements of Section R302 for exterior walls.

 

[Dan]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

Jeff,

Townhomes have property lines at the exterior walls, and have a front property line abutting a public right of way. The bottom drawing is correct for all applications such as water, sewer, electrical service conduits since all utility feeds from the public right of way. Townhomes own the property they sit on. Condo's basically own the air space, no property lines therefore no issue with top drawing. Hope this helps out.

Dan

 

[InspMO]

Re: DWV down the middle of townhouses

If it is a common sewer ther would have to be an assocation with dues to pay for the repair of the building sewer. Common sense here. If you hate your neighbor and say "I will poop in a bucket before I pay" there is a problem.