Egress from Required Landing to Grade

[Glennman CBO]

2009 IRC, section 311.3.1.

From what I understand in the evolution of building codes from the UBC to the I-Codes, the regulated portions of the means of egress went from regulating egress from a dwelling all the way to the "public way", to (in the I-Codes) simply the "exterior of the dwelling" (section 311.1), and extends from the dwelling to "grade" from the required egress landing (section 311-3-1).

I would say then that any stairs or ramps that are added from a grade height required egress landing, down a hill to another level at or adjacent to the public way, is none of our concern (?)

What is "grade" here? Is a landing considered "at grade" if it's top surface is 3" above the surrounding dirt?

At issue here is when the requirements attached to exterior ramps or stairs are applicable. The landing referred to above is 3" above the surrounding dirt (this is all hypothetical). The dwelling is on a steep hill. There are steep slopes away from this landing, and the builder has installed a sloped sidewalk or stairs away from the 3" elevated landing, that also have various heights above grade (say 2" to 6"). Since none of these are level with the surrounding dirt, or literally "at grade", then it would appear that all the requirements of section R311 apply.

This is only a portion of a discussion we had on this subject this morning. What was actually discussed is when a sloped sidewalk in front of a dwelling is no longer a sidewalk, but is to be viewed as a ramp, hence, requiring a permit, from section R105.

Understanding section R311.3.1 is a part of it.

 

[brudgers]

Re: When is it a ramp

4" concrete paving at a residence doesn't typically require a building permit.

It shouldn't on a sloped site either.

 

[Glennman CBO]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

I was just commenting on a debate we had on when a landing is considered to be at grade, and hence, not requiring stairs or ramps beyond such grade landing to need handrails, etc., that lead the rest of the way to the city sidewalk. I was using all you good people out there as a sounding board. Some of our staff meetings can get interesting.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

"What is "grade" here? Is a landing considered "at grade" if it's top surface is 3" above the surrounding dirt?"

2009 IRC, Definitions

"GRADE. The finished ground level adjoining the building at all exterior walls."

Three (3) inches above grade is not "at grade".

Are you thinking that perhaps the distance from the landing to the sidewalk is within the requirements for a stair?

That would mean that if the landing was 7 1/4" or less above the sidewalk; then it meets the requirement; doesn't it?

Uncle Bob

 

[brudgers]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

"What is "grade" here? Is a landing considered "at grade" if it's top surface is 3" above the surrounding dirt?"2009 IRC, Definitions

"GRADE. The finished ground level adjoining the building at all exterior walls."

Three (3) inches above grade is not "at grade".

Are you thinking that perhaps the distance from the landing to the sidewalk is within the requirements for a stair?

That would mean that if the landing was 7 1/4" or less above the sidewalk; then it meets the requirement; doesn't it?

Uncle Bob

Just to apply extreme logic, by that reasoning a slab could never be at grade because the ground would always be beneath it.

And the same for grass, mulch, etc.

When the slab is outside the exterior walls, it's at grade unless it is elevated.

 

[Mule]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

Significant Changes to the IRC 2009 Edition

R202 Definitions

Story above Grade Plane. Any story having its finished floor sur¬face entirely above grade plane, except that a basement shall be con¬sidered as a story above grade plane where the finished surface of the floor above the basement meets anyone of the following:

1. Is more than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane.

2. Is more than 6 feet (1829 mm) above the finished ground level for more than 50 percent of the total building perimeter.

3. Is more than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point.

CHANGE SIGNIFICANCE: Grade and grade plane are defined terms with different meanings and application. Grade is simply the finished ground level adjoining the building at exterior walls. Grade plane on the other hand is an average of the finished ground level measured at the lowest point within six feet of the exterior wall (unless the property line is closer than six feet).

Previously, the scope of the IRC limited dwellings to three stories above grade. This generally meant three stories entirely above the ad¬joining ground level at any point around the perimeter of the building. The exception to the general rule was a partially below grade basement considered by definition to be a story above grade when it met one of three criteria related to grade plane or finished ground level. The change to grade plane intends to clarify the application and to bring consis¬tency in terminology both within the IRC and in relation to the scope of the International Building Code (IEC). For detached one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses, along with their accessory structures, IEC Section 101.2 sends the code user to the IRC for such buildings not more than three stories above grade plane in height. The new language in the IRC will now match the scoping provisions of the lEe.

In practice, the new language will not change the outcome in most cases. Typically, basements considered a story above grade in the 2006 IRC will also be a story above grade plane in the 2009 IRC because the three criteria in the revised definition have not changed. When the basement is not a story above grade plane, the code still permits three stories in addition to the basement.

Finished ground level.............

Clear as mud?????

 

[Heaven]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

Geezz, if they can take a step off the landing onto the the ground and get away from the burning building that is all that matters.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

Clear as mud?????

When the "mud" dries you'll have a slab.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

Geezz, if they can take a step off the landing onto the the ground and get away from the burning building that is all that matters.

Unless your goal is how many ways you can construe the code to find nonconformance.

 

[Glennman CBO]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

The way I see it, is that if one can step off a landing to the grade with a step being in the 7 3/4" range, then the landing is pretty much at grade for the purposes of the section in question. The 3" was only an illustration of how one can construe the code for ways to find non-conformance (thanks Brudgers). I think the intent is like what Heaven said...to get away from the burning building.

What actually started the conversation in the staff meeting was that someone a few blocks away from city hall was building a ramp up to their front porch of their single family dwelling without a permit. We looked into the code to see when we would require a compliant ramp. That started the whole thing.

Thanks all.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Egress from Required Landing to Grade

The way I see it, is that if one can step off a landing to the grade with a step being in the 7 3/4" range, then the landing is pretty much at grade for the purposes of the section in question. The 3" was only an illustration of how one can construe the code for ways to find non-conformance (thanks Brudgers). I think the intent is like what Heaven said...to get away from the burning building.What actually started the conversation in the staff meeting was that someone a few blocks away from city hall was building a ramp up to their front porch of their single family dwelling without a permit. We looked into the code to see when we would require a compliant ramp. That started the whole thing.

Thanks all.

Just my personal opinion: if it's to get in the front door, let it go. They almost certainly need it. Making it difficult can open up a political ****storm.