I have a Ambulatory Surgery Center. The Minimum required egress width is only 44" wide. I have a door that opens outward into the hallway BUT does not exceed more than 50% of the minimum required egress width. However, part of my 44" pathway pushes into and beyond some privacy cubicle curtains that are hanging around the patient Preparation Bays. Is there anything in the Life Safety Code that would not allow me to run my min. egress path partially through some cubicle curtains? I have a code reviewer telling me I can't but he does not cite a code that tells me I can't. Anyone out there have any thoughts? I am anticipating that the AHJ has the finally ruling and it won't be in black and white.
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Egress width and cubicle curtains
- Thread starter Vlab20
- Start date
Coug Dad
Platinum Member
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
I would think that the curtains can not reduce the required width.
I would think that the curtains can not reduce the required width.
JBI
Registered User
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
But they may obstruct view or hamper evacuation if one gets entangled in them.
welcome to the board, by the way...
But they may obstruct view or hamper evacuation if one gets entangled in them.
welcome to the board, by the way...
Coug Dad
Platinum Member
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
The purpose of the curtain is to define the space in addition to providing privacy. A visitor's chair or a piece of equipment could be placed abutting the curtain as the limit of the space. While a curtain could easily be brushed aside during emergency egress, a chair or piece of equipment would not.
The purpose of the curtain is to define the space in addition to providing privacy. A visitor's chair or a piece of equipment could be placed abutting the curtain as the limit of the space. While a curtain could easily be brushed aside during emergency egress, a chair or piece of equipment would not.
Coug Dad
Platinum Member
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
Dittos on the welcome!
Dittos on the welcome!
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
Thanks for the welcome!
There are some common sense points here...the visual aspect is one, the curtains can be brushed aside, etc. What I find interesting is the code will allow a door when in the fully opened position to impinge on the min. egress width by as much as 7". That door even though only sticking out 7" will do more harm on an occupant and impede the travel of an occupant more than my cubicle curtains. The cubicle curtains by the way only stick out 11" into the minimum egress path.
Thanks for the welcome!
There are some common sense points here...the visual aspect is one, the curtains can be brushed aside, etc. What I find interesting is the code will allow a door when in the fully opened position to impinge on the min. egress width by as much as 7". That door even though only sticking out 7" will do more harm on an occupant and impede the travel of an occupant more than my cubicle curtains. The cubicle curtains by the way only stick out 11" into the minimum egress path.
Coug Dad
Platinum Member
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
You could try to argue that the curtain is like a door and at any point of its path cannot obstruct the egress width by more than 1/2 and not more than 7 inches when fully opened, but I would not want to bet the farm on that position.
You could try to argue that the curtain is like a door and at any point of its path cannot obstruct the egress width by more than 1/2 and not more than 7 inches when fully opened, but I would not want to bet the farm on that position.
FM William Burns
Moderator
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
Yes, Welcome
The reviewer should be citing: (2009)
20.2.3.1 The capacity of any required means of egress shall be determined in accordance with the provisions of 38.2.3.
38.2.3.2* The clear width of any corridor or passageway serving an occupant load of 50 or more shall be not less than 44 in. (1120 mm).
A.38.2.3.2 It is not the intent that this provision apply to noncorridor or nonpassageway areas of exit access, such as the spaces between rows of desks created by office layout or low-height partitions.
Don’t have the handbook with me to see if other areas are considered similar.
Question: Is the OL of the area >50? If greater then....
20.2.3.2 The clear width of any corridor or passageway required for exit access shall be not less than 44 in. (1120 mm). applies unless the argument for the intent can be met.
If the OL is >50 the matters addressed with visual obstruction are considered unless the upper sections of the curtains are clear or mesh where it does not obstruct marked exit location.
Yes, Welcome
The reviewer should be citing: (2009)
20.2.3.1 The capacity of any required means of egress shall be determined in accordance with the provisions of 38.2.3.
38.2.3.2* The clear width of any corridor or passageway serving an occupant load of 50 or more shall be not less than 44 in. (1120 mm).
A.38.2.3.2 It is not the intent that this provision apply to noncorridor or nonpassageway areas of exit access, such as the spaces between rows of desks created by office layout or low-height partitions.
Don’t have the handbook with me to see if other areas are considered similar.
Question: Is the OL of the area >50? If greater then....
20.2.3.2 The clear width of any corridor or passageway required for exit access shall be not less than 44 in. (1120 mm). applies unless the argument for the intent can be met.
If the OL is >50 the matters addressed with visual obstruction are considered unless the upper sections of the curtains are clear or mesh where it does not obstruct marked exit location.
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
In the 2000 Life Safety Code, see 7.1.10.2.1 and 7.5.2.2. If I was the plans examiner I'd probably be holding you to the 7" door encroachment as long as the curtains did not obstruct the view of the exit.
Actually, it is your cubicle curtains that are encroaching on the minimum egress width, not the other way around.Vlab20 said:
In the 2000 Life Safety Code, see 7.1.10.2.1 and 7.5.2.2. If I was the plans examiner I'd probably be holding you to the 7" door encroachment as long as the curtains did not obstruct the view of the exit.
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
The occupant load is less than 50.
The visually width between the hallway wall and the curtains is 4'-0". I think TJacobs might be right that I might be held to the 7" encroachment at the curtains. I might have to shift the curtains a bit to get the necessary clearance.
The occupant load is less than 50.
The visually width between the hallway wall and the curtains is 4'-0". I think TJacobs might be right that I might be held to the 7" encroachment at the curtains. I might have to shift the curtains a bit to get the necessary clearance.
Re: Egress width and cubicle curtains
I agree with TJacobs approch, today its curtain, tomorrow it's one of those accordin type curtains, then building maintenance puts in a wall.
"This is what the smoke tells us". No crystal ball used in this post! :lol:
I agree with TJacobs approch, today its curtain, tomorrow it's one of those accordin type curtains, then building maintenance puts in a wall.
"This is what the smoke tells us". No crystal ball used in this post! :lol: