electrical junction box and insulation

[bill1952]

Converting existing attached 2 car garage to habitable space. Conduit on top of lower truss chord that needs to be extended. Planning 15"+ of loose fill cellulose. Can a junction box be covered by loose fill insulation?

Multiple conflicting answers when I search Google or here. Some show pictures of a sign noting location, which made sense. Just a splice in the box to extend circuit, no devices.

Thanks!

 

[wwhitney]

The controlling section of the NEC is 314.29, which states the junction boxes must be installed so that they "can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or structure."

Whether moving insulation is "removing part of the building" seems like a judgment call to me. The conduit could be turned up to a junction box elevated above the level of the insulation.

https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/3/wiring-methods-and-materials#314.29

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ICE]

Can a junction box be covered by loose fill insulation?

It happens often. Loose fill insulation is placed years after a building was built. They bury all sorts of stuff from furnace combustion air openings to Christmas decorations.

 

[bill1952]

I should of been clearer in my question.

Is it permitted by the IRC and NEC?

Thank you.

 

[north star]

@ ~ @

bill, ...IMO, whether the IRC or NEC allows it or not,
it just makes good sense to be proactive and have
the junction box installed so it is clearly visible &
accessible, ...above any installed insulation.

@ ~ @

 

[ICE]

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures toBe Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible in accordance with 314.29(A) and (B).

(A) In Buildings and Other Structures. Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so the contained wiring can be accessed without removing any part of the building or structure.

(B) Underground. Underground boxes and handhole enclosures shall be installed so they are accessible without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.

Exception: Listed boxes and handhole enclosures shall be permitted where covered by gravel, light aggregate, or noncohesive granulated soil if their location is effectively identified and accessible for excavation.

Note the exception that would allow a junction box to be covered with gravel as long as there is effective identification of the location. So a sign in an attic should be just as good. However, insulation in an attic is not mentioned in an exception so there is an argument to be made against it. Given that the fix will not be easy to accomplish it is my opinion that the sign is a sufficient work around.

 

[Beniah Naylor]

There's always the listed Tyco splice for Romex... I know some people are too good for such a thing, but they work... kind of like air admittance valves to vent plumbing...

 

[Beniah Naylor]

There's always the listed Tyco splice for Romex... I know some people are too good for such a thing, but they work... kind of like air admittance valves to vent plumbing...

It could be used inside the box to transition to NM cable, and the NM cable comes out of the box and goes to whatever device you are extending. The splice doesn't need to be accessible.

 

[ICE]

The splice doesn't need to be accessible.

The junction box does.

 

[bill1952]

@ ~ @

bill, ...IMO, whether the IRC or NEC allows it or not,
it just makes good sense to be proactive and have
the junction box installed so it is clearly visible &
accessible, ...above any installed insulation.

@ ~ @

I appreciate your point but the likelihood of ever having to access this box is very small. It's a feeder for a sub panel.

Thinking about it, I could just scrap the existing wire and simply extend the existing conduit and pull all new wire - probably 30-35'

 

[ICE]

I appreciate your point but the likelihood of ever having to access this box is very small. It's a feeder for a sub panel.

Thinking about it, I could just scrap the existing wire and simply extend the existing conduit and pull all new wire - probably 30-35'

I didn’t recognize that this is your own property until now. A lot would depend on whether or not you got a permit. I avoid that whenever possible.

 

[wwhitney]

Thinking about it, I could just scrap the existing wire and simply extend the existing conduit and pull all new wire - probably 30-35'

The best option.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[bill1952]

A lot would depend on whether or not you got a permit. I avoid that whenever possible.

I feel because of my 35+ years involved in code development that it would be hypocritical for me not to get a permit when it's required, even if for work most don't.

 

[ICE]

it would be hypocritical for me not to get a permit

I used to feel the same way...I obtained a permit for a retaining wall ... then I met the local inspector. Not yet convinced, I inquired about a plumbing permit for a pex repipe and was told to submit an isometric drawing of the plumbing system. I have since deemed it prudent to rely on a particular set of skills.