Elevator Access

[gutvann]

I am working on a mixed-use multi-story building in New York. The layout below shows the elevator lobby on the third floor, that is identical to the second floor. On the second floor, the elevator lobby has direct access to the outside, however, on the third floor it can only be accessed from the stair shaft. I can't find any code reference that doesn't allow this but logically it doesn't make sense to me. does anyone have any insight or references to resolve this issue?

 

[steveray]

How about this one?

1023.4 Openings. Interior exit stairway and ramp opening
protectives shall be in accordance with the requirements of
Section 716.
Openings in interior exit stairways and ramps other than
unprotected exterior openings shall be limited to those necessary
for exit access to the enclosure from normally occupied
spaces and for egress from the enclosure.
Elevators shall not open into interior exit stairways and
ramps.

 

[gutvann]

I saw this but I wasn't sure if it applied because the elevator doesn't open directly into the stairway but rather into an elevator lobby. Do you think this code section still applies?

 

[ICE]

1023.4 Openings. Interior exit stairway and ramp opening protectives shall be in accordance with the requirements of Section 716.
Openings in interior exit stairways and ramps other than unprotected exterior openings shall be limited to those required for exit access to the enclosure from normally occupied spaces and for egress from the enclosure.
Elevators shall not open into interior exit stairways and ramps.

The layout as shown has the elevator lobby accessing the third floor through the stairway. While the argument could be made that the elevator lobby can be identified as a normally occupied space and therefor the door from the lobby to the stairway is allowed....and furthermore, the door from the third floor to the stairway is obviously compliant....both doors serve an additional purpose/function that is not related to exiting.

"Shall be limited to those required for exit access" can be interrupted to disallow the configuration as shown. Beyond that, the layout would be less attractive than one would expect. It would seem as though the elevator was an afterthought.

Understand that I am just an inspector. This dilemma is best addressed by the heavy thinkers....I was bored and it's too hot to be outdoors so I took a look at it...that's all.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

I would argue that the elevator does not open into the interior exit stair, and that the stair is simply acting as a circulation path to the elevator lobby as allowed by 1023.1

1023.1 General. Interior exit stairways and ramps serving as
an exit component in a means of egress system shall comply
with the requirements of this section. Interior exit stairways
and ramps shall be enclosed and lead directly to the exterior
of the building or shall be extended to the exterior of the
building with an exit passageway conforming to the requirements
of Section 1024, except as permitted in Section 1028.1.
An interior exit stairway or ramp shall not be used for any
purpose other than as a means of egress and a circulation
path

 

[Tim Mailloux]

this is from the code commentary

It is important that an exit stairway or ramp not be
used for any purpose other than normal circulation
and as a means of egress. For example, there is a
tendency to use stairway landings for storage purposes.
Such a situation obstructs the path of exit
travel and if the stored contents consist of combustible
materials, the use of the exit stairway as part of
the path for a means of egress may be jeopardized,
creating a hazard to life safety. It is not the intent of
these provisions to prohibit an exit stairway from
being used as part of the normal building circulation
system. If the tenants or building owner have security
concerns that would prompt them to wish to limit
stairway access, consult Section 1010.1.9.1

 

[steveray]

See what happens when I answer after 5 on a Friday.....You would really have to hinge on whether or not the elevator lobby is "normally occupied".....As the EE does not open to "the elevator".....