-
Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades
Elevator Sump Pump Discharge Into Grease Interceptor?
- Thread starter Mule
- Start date
Moscow
Bronze Member
I would say no becasue the sump is in for ground water, ground water may not enter into the sanitry sewer system it has to go to the strom sewer and therefor needs it's own oil seperator.
Justin
Justin
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
* *
Mule,
Per Section 1003.3.1 in the 2006 IPC: "Grease interceptors and automatic
grease removal devices required."
A grease interceptor or automatic grease removal device shall be required to receive
the drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden waste located in food
preparation areas, such as in restaurants, hotel kitchens, hospitals, school kitchens,
bars, factory cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall include pot sinks,
prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks
into which kettles are drained; automatic hood wash units and dishwashers without
prerinse sinks. Grease interceptors and automatic grease removal devices shall
receive waste only from fixtures and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease
to be discharged.
From Section 1003.4 in the 2006 IPC: "Oil separators required."
At repair garages, car-washing facilities, at factories where oily and flammable liquid
wastes are produced and in hydraulic elevator pits, separators shall be installed
into which all oil-bearing, grease-bearing or flammable wastes shall be discharged
before emptying into the building drainage system or other point of disposal.
Exception: An oil separator is not required in hydraulic elevator pits where
an approved alarm system is installed.
* *
Mule,
Per Section 1003.3.1 in the 2006 IPC: "Grease interceptors and automatic
grease removal devices required."
A grease interceptor or automatic grease removal device shall be required to receive
the drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden waste located in food
preparation areas, such as in restaurants, hotel kitchens, hospitals, school kitchens,
bars, factory cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall include pot sinks,
prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks
into which kettles are drained; automatic hood wash units and dishwashers without
prerinse sinks. Grease interceptors and automatic grease removal devices shall
receive waste only from fixtures and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease
to be discharged.
From Section 1003.4 in the 2006 IPC: "Oil separators required."
At repair garages, car-washing facilities, at factories where oily and flammable liquid
wastes are produced and in hydraulic elevator pits, separators shall be installed
into which all oil-bearing, grease-bearing or flammable wastes shall be discharged
before emptying into the building drainage system or other point of disposal.
Exception: An oil separator is not required in hydraulic elevator pits where
an approved alarm system is installed.
* *
skipharper
Registered User
No to the grease interceptor. I would say to daylight, an oil seperator would be somewhat rediculous.
RJJ
Co-Founder
NO!NO! I had to lengthen my response because the machine said it was to short!
Thanks for the responses.
North Star, thanks for the "specific" code sections.
This site spoils us sooooo bad. I would rather just come on here and ask instead of researching myself. But when someone else askes a question I will look up the code sections to make sure I am close to what I am thinking! Strange but true!
North Star, thanks for the "specific" code sections.
This site spoils us sooooo bad. I would rather just come on here and ask instead of researching myself. But when someone else askes a question I will look up the code sections to make sure I am close to what I am thinking! Strange but true!
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
* *
Mule,
As I understand the alarm requirement [ in Section 1003.4 ], rather than installing an
approved type of oil separator, an approved type of sensor [ alarm ] will be installed in
the sump pit to monitor for oily wastes. I'm not quite sure as to how it actually
works, ...maybe measuring the viscosity of the water or something, but this sensor
will shut down the sump pump before pumping any hazardous wastes are pumped in to
the sanitary or storm sewer systems.
* *
Mule,
As I understand the alarm requirement [ in Section 1003.4 ], rather than installing an
approved type of oil separator, an approved type of sensor [ alarm ] will be installed in
the sump pit to monitor for oily wastes. I'm not quite sure as to how it actually
works, ...maybe measuring the viscosity of the water or something, but this sensor
will shut down the sump pump before pumping any hazardous wastes are pumped in to
the sanitary or storm sewer systems.
* *
Darren Emery
Registered User
Alias
Registered User
Darren -
Thanks for the post with the information on the alarm/sensor design. Very helpful with the potential arrival of elevators here.
Sue, on the frontier
Thanks for the post with the information on the alarm/sensor design. Very helpful with the potential arrival of elevators here.
Sue, on the frontier
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
* *
FWIW,
We have a project here now that is proposing to install one of these alarm sensor
thingies on the elevator sump pump pit.
* *
FWIW,
We have a project here now that is proposing to install one of these alarm sensor
thingies on the elevator sump pump pit.
* *
georgia plans exam
Silver Member
The State of Georgia has deleted the exception to IPC Section 1003.4 by amendment.
GPES
GPES
Sort of depends on the elevator equipment; if it's hydraulic, it will eject oily water. Any sump ejecting water into a parking garage needs to go to an oil separator. Would I allow it to go to a kitchen grease interceptor (maybe.. have you ever seen the water coming out of a steel sprinkler system? .. it's nasty oily)..
I don't think a kitchen grease interceptor can generally handle the 3000 gallons per hour that a sump is supposed to be able to pump (I don't have ASME 17.1 handy, but I think that's what it is)..
look elsewhere to dump the sump.
I don't think a kitchen grease interceptor can generally handle the 3000 gallons per hour that a sump is supposed to be able to pump (I don't have ASME 17.1 handy, but I think that's what it is)..
look elsewhere to dump the sump.
These guys just don't get it! They called me again this AM wanting to know why they couldn't discharge the elevator pit into the grease interceptor.
Here is my response.What do you think?
From the 2006 IPC,
1003.3 Grease interceptors. Grease interceptors shall comply
with the requirements of Sections 1003.3.1 through 1003.3.5.
1003.3.1 Grease interceptors and automatic grease
removal devices required. A grease interceptor or automatic
grease removal device shall be required to receive the
drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden
waste located in food preparation areas, such as in restaurants,
hotel kitchens, hospitals, school kitchens, bars, factory
cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall
include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar
devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles
are drained; automatic hoodwash units and dishwashers
without prerinse sinks. Grease interceptors and automatic
grease removal devices shall receive waste only from fixtures
and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease to be discharged.
The code is specific on what is allowed to be discharged into a grease interceptor and that grease interceptors shall receive waste only from fixtures and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease to be discharged.
This section of the code goes on to define fixtures and equipment. Fixtures and equipment shall include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles are drained; automatic hoodwash units and dishwashers without prerinse sinks.
Elevator pits are not included as equipment that is allowed to discharge into a grease interceptor.
Then go to section 1003.4 Oil separators required.
1003.4 Oil separators required. At repair garages, car-washing
facilities, at factories where oily and flammable liquid
wastes are produced and in hydraulic elevator pits, separators
shall be installed into which all oil-bearing, grease-bearing or
flammable wastes shall be discharged before emptying into the
building drainage system or other point of disposal.
Exception: An oil separator is not required in hydraulic elevator
pits where an approved alarm system is installed.
Notice that one is an interceptor (grease) and the other is a separator (oil), two different applications. In my opinion the code is very specific on where grease interceptors are required and where an oil separator is required. Grease interceptors shall only accept grease-laden from fixtures and equipment located in food preparation areas. An oil separator is required where oily and flammable liquid wastes are produced.
Elevator pits must discharge into an oil separator however there is an exception in the code for elevator pits.
Exception: An oil separator is not required in hydraulic elevator
pits where an approved alarm system is installed.
So I stand on my original interpretation that the elevator pit cannot discharge into the grease interceptor. You must either install an oil separator for the elevator pit or install an approved alarm system.
Thanks to all that responded. Also....Darren, thanks for the link.
Here is my response.What do you think?
From the 2006 IPC,
1003.3 Grease interceptors. Grease interceptors shall comply
with the requirements of Sections 1003.3.1 through 1003.3.5.
1003.3.1 Grease interceptors and automatic grease
removal devices required. A grease interceptor or automatic
grease removal device shall be required to receive the
drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden
waste located in food preparation areas, such as in restaurants,
hotel kitchens, hospitals, school kitchens, bars, factory
cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall
include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar
devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles
are drained; automatic hoodwash units and dishwashers
without prerinse sinks. Grease interceptors and automatic
grease removal devices shall receive waste only from fixtures
and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease to be discharged.
The code is specific on what is allowed to be discharged into a grease interceptor and that grease interceptors shall receive waste only from fixtures and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease to be discharged.
This section of the code goes on to define fixtures and equipment. Fixtures and equipment shall include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles are drained; automatic hoodwash units and dishwashers without prerinse sinks.
Elevator pits are not included as equipment that is allowed to discharge into a grease interceptor.
Then go to section 1003.4 Oil separators required.
1003.4 Oil separators required. At repair garages, car-washing
facilities, at factories where oily and flammable liquid
wastes are produced and in hydraulic elevator pits, separators
shall be installed into which all oil-bearing, grease-bearing or
flammable wastes shall be discharged before emptying into the
building drainage system or other point of disposal.
Exception: An oil separator is not required in hydraulic elevator
pits where an approved alarm system is installed.
Notice that one is an interceptor (grease) and the other is a separator (oil), two different applications. In my opinion the code is very specific on where grease interceptors are required and where an oil separator is required. Grease interceptors shall only accept grease-laden from fixtures and equipment located in food preparation areas. An oil separator is required where oily and flammable liquid wastes are produced.
Elevator pits must discharge into an oil separator however there is an exception in the code for elevator pits.
Exception: An oil separator is not required in hydraulic elevator
pits where an approved alarm system is installed.
So I stand on my original interpretation that the elevator pit cannot discharge into the grease interceptor. You must either install an oil separator for the elevator pit or install an approved alarm system.
Thanks to all that responded. Also....Darren, thanks for the link.
You really need to get ASME 17.1 regarding ALL of the elevator requirements. That one actually gets into the types of washers used, etc. Talk about the "I don't understand.. and don't care to" zone... that's what QEI certification is about.
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
* *
"QEI certification?" They don't want and ain't going to have no stinkin' certifications!
You know, it's all about the dollar and not doing the right thing, or the code thing.
* *
"QEI certification?" They don't want and ain't going to have no stinkin' certifications!
You know, it's all about the dollar and not doing the right thing, or the code thing.
* *
Glennman CBO
Silver Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2009
- Messages
- 441
Doesn't the code section you quoted allow "oils"?
The grease interceptor shall receive "oils" from fixtures and equipment that allow oils to be discharged.
The specificitiy here that doesn't allow other fixtures to drain into the grease interceptor is referring to fixtures that do not discharge grease or oils, IMHO.
The grease interceptor shall receive "oils" from fixtures and equipment that allow oils to be discharged.
The specificitiy here that doesn't allow other fixtures to drain into the grease interceptor is referring to fixtures that do not discharge grease or oils, IMHO.
After really reading the code...instead of just asking I feel like an oil separator is required or an approved alarm.
1003.3.1 Grease interceptors and automatic grease
removal devices required. A grease interceptor or automatic
grease removal device shall be required to receive the
drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden
waste located in food preparation areas, such as in restaurants,
hotel kitchens, hospitals, school kitchens, bars, factory
cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall
include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar
devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles
are drained; automatic hoodwash units and dishwashers
without prerinse sinks. Grease interceptors and automatic
grease removal devices shall receive waste only from fixtures
and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease to be discharged.
The bold is what I consider as fixtures and equipment.
There is wording under Oil Separators that specifically calls out "elevator pits"
1003.4 Oil separators required. At repair garages, car-washing
facilities, at factories where oily and flammable liquid
wastes are produced and in hydraulic elevator pits, separators
shall be installed into which all oil-bearing, grease-bearing or
flammable wastes shall be discharged before emptying into the
building drainage system or other point of disposal.
You wouldn't believe what they've submitted now though!
A 55 gallon drum with a sump pump that has an alarm in it that is inside the janitors closet that is connected directly to the sanitary sewer.
The way it is spected out is an alarm will sound when the water reaches a certain level. If no one empties the oil accumilated then the barrel has another level where the sump pump will kick on and pump everything into the sanitary sewer.
I haven't found a listing for the design on the specs yet?
1003.3.1 Grease interceptors and automatic grease
removal devices required. A grease interceptor or automatic
grease removal device shall be required to receive the
drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden
waste located in food preparation areas, such as in restaurants,
hotel kitchens, hospitals, school kitchens, bars, factory
cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall
include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar
devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles
are drained; automatic hoodwash units and dishwashers
without prerinse sinks. Grease interceptors and automatic
grease removal devices shall receive waste only from fixtures
and equipment that allow fats, oils or grease to be discharged.
The bold is what I consider as fixtures and equipment.
There is wording under Oil Separators that specifically calls out "elevator pits"
1003.4 Oil separators required. At repair garages, car-washing
facilities, at factories where oily and flammable liquid
wastes are produced and in hydraulic elevator pits, separators
shall be installed into which all oil-bearing, grease-bearing or
flammable wastes shall be discharged before emptying into the
building drainage system or other point of disposal.
You wouldn't believe what they've submitted now though!
A 55 gallon drum with a sump pump that has an alarm in it that is inside the janitors closet that is connected directly to the sanitary sewer.
The way it is spected out is an alarm will sound when the water reaches a certain level. If no one empties the oil accumilated then the barrel has another level where the sump pump will kick on and pump everything into the sanitary sewer.
I haven't found a listing for the design on the specs yet?
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
* *
Glennman & others,
IMO, the types of oils are critical as to where they are being discharged to.
The Fats, Oils & Grease [ F.O.G. ] from the kitchen wastes are [ typically ],
more easily biodegradable than the petroleum based hydraulic oils, hence
the need [ as I understand it ] for a separate type of separator / collector.
The link is to "one type" of sump alarm.
http://www.alderonind.com/products/7002.html
Hope this helps!
* *
Glennman & others,
IMO, the types of oils are critical as to where they are being discharged to.
The Fats, Oils & Grease [ F.O.G. ] from the kitchen wastes are [ typically ],
more easily biodegradable than the petroleum based hydraulic oils, hence
the need [ as I understand it ] for a separate type of separator / collector.
The link is to "one type" of sump alarm.
http://www.alderonind.com/products/7002.html
Hope this helps!
* *
Last edited by a moderator: