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Ems = r2?

B

BSSTG

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
729
Location
Seadrift, Tx.
Greetings all,

I know this gets bantered around a bit but here goes. Previously had a guy present plans for a private ambulance building. It had sleeping quarters in it. He was informed it would have to get wet and it killed the deal. Fast forward a couple of years. Same guy buys an unused bank building and wants to convert it. He is claiming it will be strictly a business type of office therefore not requiring sprinklers. I'm not buying it as it's the same dude, same business etc. Now I've already set up to speak with the city atty. on this as I don't want my name or the city on the hook. Of course this guy doen't want to sprinkle.We shall see what the atty says this Thurs.

All said, would it not be considered an R2 (live/work unit) under the 09 IBC? It would be the same as a typical firehouse. Guys and gals work a 24 hour shift and get to sleep some of the time.

thanks

BSSTG
 
Where will the ambulances be stored, ..inside or outside? If inside, you can add an

S-1 to the occupancy group mix for storage of comm. vehicles.

.
 
Not sure about live work

Did you look at 419??

Maybe still R-2 but call it something else or some other R flavor
 
We get a few requests for these too and actually have three within our City. We have turned down at least two applications because of no sprinklers. Two of the buildings being used for such have sprinklers and one other building has no sprinklers but, the crews all work 8-hour shifts 24/7. During our unannounced inspections, we make sure there are no beds or cots anywhere that could be used for sleeping. They do have a few recliners in a TV area, but since they're not on 24-hour shifts I am not as concerned with them.
 
midwestFCO said:
We get a few requests for these too and actually have three within our City. We have turned down at least two applications because of no sprinklers. Two of the buildings being used for such have sprinklers and one other building has no sprinklers but, the crews all work 8-hour shifts 24/7. During our unannounced inspections, we make sure there are no beds or cots anywhere that could be used for sleeping. They do have a few recliners in a TV area, but since they're not on 24-hour shifts I am not as concerned with them.
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Greetings,

That's interesting. This business owner was considering changing the shift setup to accomodate bldg requirements a couple of years ago when this originally came up I was told. I have not heard of any more effort to that end since then.

In talking to our municipal prosecutor a week ago about an unrelated case, she said for me to be able to go after a person for an occupancy violation (Group B being used for living quarters), all we needed were pics of their beds and "stuff". I guess that would apply in your case too. Previously, an atty told me that they did not want to go to court in the attempt to prove someone was living where they weren't supposed to.

Have a great day!

BSSTG
 
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cda said:
Not sure about live workDid you look at 419??

Maybe still R-2 but call it something else or some other R flavor
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Well shoot, I didn't know there was section on live/work units. Thanks for the help. I guess I'm back to my original question. What is it? It still seems to be R2 though huh?

BSSTG
 
Have them commet on paper what they propose to do, to include a floor plan with eac room labeled.

If beds are shown = R

If eight / twelve hour shifts and no beds =B
 
cda said:
Have them commet on paper what they propose to do, to include a floor plan with eac room labeled.If beds are shown = R

If eight / twelve hour shifts and no beds =B
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Yea I'm with you. I just found out a minute ago that I can see the city atty this pm. I will run this by him and post up later. My fear is that he will go to extremes. You know how these lawyers are, always running up the bill. I've got the backing of my new supervisor though which is helpful. I expect this business owner is going to throw a fit at some point in time.

BSSTG
 
You'll call a sleep study lab an R-2 because it has beds?? I see that this could be a B
 
kilitact said:
You'll call a sleep study lab an R-2 because it has beds?? I see that this could be a B
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Yes along with the business that sells them the mattresses !!

Luckily my office is sprinkled or could not sleep there
 
kilitact said:
You'll call a sleep study lab an R-2 because it has beds?? I see that this could be a B
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302.1...Where a structure is proposed for a purpose that is not specifically provided for in this code, such structure shall be classified in the group that the occupancy most nearly resembles, according to the fire safety and relative hazard involved.
 
BSSTG said:
302.1...Where a structure is proposed for a purpose that is not specifically provided for in this code, such structure shall be classified in the group that the occupancy most nearly resembles, according to the fire safety and relative hazard involved.
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Section 419.1; A live/work unit is a dwelling unit is a dwelling unit or sleeping unit in which a significant portion of the space includes a non-residential use that is operated by the tenant and shall comply with Sections 419.1 through 419.8.

Section 304.1; Business Group B occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for office, professional or service-type transactions, including storage of records and accounts.

From the information that you provided this was a bank building (B) and appears that it will be used for services, still a B.
 
except for the fact that "civic administration" is a B, and fire stations are specifically not listed as an "R". If my brain cells serve me correctly, fire stations were always "B" under SBCCI.

Why they wouldn't WANT to sprinkle it is a mystery to me, but a case could be made....
 
Greetings,

I believe if you have sleeping quarters in a building, you have to consider all or portion either Group I or R in some way shape or fashion according to 09 Codes. I talked with the city attorney and he agreed. What he did tell me was that to alleviate City's responsibilty it would be acceptable to make a notation on the C/O that there is no sleeping allowed and go on and consider it a Group B. Works for me.

Fast forward and now the owner wants to allow sleeping and is putting in the application for a variance. I expect the granting of a variance for this is highly unlikely. We shall see.

BSSTG
 
Variance? To what? It's not that you have to consider all or a portion, the requirement is that the building be sprinklered throughout. Additionaly, I don't find a "variance" section in my code book. The alternate materials and methods provisions of IFC 104.9 would require an equivalent level of fire resistance, effectiveness and safety as that required by the code. Now remember this could be a Type IA building that is completely non-combustible and the code still requires it to be fully sprinklered if it contains any portion of an R or I occupancy. What is an applicant going to provide that is equivalent to non-combustible and fully sprinkled from a fire resistance standpoint not to mention effectiveness or safety? Variances fall right in with grandfather clauses and santa clauses..... They don't exist in my world.

ZIG
 
zigmark said:
Variance? To what? It's not that you have to consider all or a portion, the requirement is that the building be sprinklered throughout. Additionaly, I don't find a "variance" section in my code book. The alternate materials and methods provisions of IFC 104.9 would require an equivalent level of fire resistance, effectiveness and safety as that required by the code. Now remember this could be a Type IA building that is completely non-combustible and the code still requires it to be fully sprinklered if it contains any portion of an R or I occupancy. What is an applicant going to provide that is equivalent to non-combustible and fully sprinkled from a fire resistance standpoint not to mention effectiveness or safety? Variances fall right in with grandfather clauses and santa clauses..... They don't exist in my world.ZIG
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A variance would be granted based on planning or zoning rules typically.
 
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