i HAVE A 12 STORY BUILDING FINISHING NEXT DOOR TO MY 1923 4 PLEX, THEY HAVE INSTALLED THE GENERATOR AND THE EXHAUST PIPE FOR THIS DIESEL FULE 10 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, THE BUILDING IS 3 FEET BEYOND THAT, HAVE 4 SETS OF FRENCH DOORS, AND TWO ENTRY DOORS JUST 13 -15 FEET FROM THIS EXHAUST, NEED CONSULTANT, THIS CANNOT REMAIN, IT IS HORRIBLE. THEY ALSO HAVE DRAIN COMING OUT OF GENERATOR EXISTING INTO THE CURB MURKY WHITE WATER, MY YARD AND HOUSE IS NOW A TOXIC WASTE DUMP, AND THE FRONT CURB REMAINS A SWAMP. THEY HAVE RUINED MY PLACE. ANY HELP TO GET THIS THING MOVED APPRECIATED.
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ENORMOUS GENERATOR AND EXHAUST AT MY DOORS AND WINDOWS
- Thread starter exhausted
- Start date
@exhausted - Welcome to the forum. We'll definitely try to help you find some resources.
Hopefully you have calmly and politely spoken with the local jurisdiction regarding your situation. I understand that this is a very sensitive subject to you and you likely feel that this is very unfair. I don't blame you at all, I'd feel the same. Just some commentary I suppose given your initial post in all caps.
Here is the code section I would look to. It is taken from Dallas's mechanical code. Note that it specifies 10-ft, which is what you have noted the distance to be. The generator's installation manual may provide further information, but you likely do not have access to it.
Hopefully you have calmly and politely spoken with the local jurisdiction regarding your situation. I understand that this is a very sensitive subject to you and you likely feel that this is very unfair. I don't blame you at all, I'd feel the same. Just some commentary I suppose given your initial post in all caps.
Here is the code section I would look to. It is taken from Dallas's mechanical code. Note that it specifies 10-ft, which is what you have noted the distance to be. The generator's installation manual may provide further information, but you likely do not have access to it.
501.3.1 Location of Exhaust Outlets
The termination point of exhaust outlets and ducts discharging to the outdoors shall be located with the following minimum distances:- For ducts conveying explosive or flammable vapors, fumes or dusts; 30 feet (9144 mm) from property lines; 10 feet (3048 mm) from operable openings into buildings; 6 feet (1829 mm) from exterior walls and roofs; 30 feet (9144 mm) from combustible walls and operable openings into buildings that are in the direction of the exhaust discharge; 10 feet (3048 mm) above adjoining grade.
- For other product-conveying outlets: 10 feet (3048 mm) from the property lines; 3 feet (914 mm) from exterior walls and roofs; 10 feet (3048 mm) from operable openings into buildings; 10 feet (3048 mm) above adjoining grade.
- For all environmental air exhaust: 3 feet (914 mm) from property lines; 3 feet (914 mm) from operable openings into buildings for all occupancies other than Group U; and 10 feet (3048 mm) from mechanical air intakes. Such exhaust shall not be considered hazardous or noxious. Separation is not required between intake air openings and living space exhaust air openings of an individual dwelling unit or sleeping unit where an approved factory-built intake/exhaust combination termination fitting is used to separate the air streams in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.
- Exhaust outlets serving structures in flood hazard areas shall be installed at or above the elevation required by Section 1612 of the Dallas Building Code for utilities and attendant equipment.
- For specific systems, see the following sections:
5.1. Clothes dryer exhaust, Section 504.4.
5.2. Kitchen hoods and other kitchen exhaust equipment, Sections 506.3.13, 506.4 and 506.5.
5.3. Dust, stock and refuse conveying systems, Section 511.2.
5.4. Subslab soil exhaust systems, Section 512.4.
5.5. Smoke control systems, Section 513.10.3.
5.6. Refrigerant discharge, Section 1105.7.
5.7. Machinery room discharge, Section 1105.6.1.
Yikes
Gold Member
You did not say where your 4plex is located. Same city as you, Dallas?
If you truly believe someone is dumping toxic material into the public curb/gutter/storm drainage system, then call your city Hall and ask for Code Enforcement, and ask them for a field inspection of this condition.
10' is usually the magic number for keeping motor exhaust away from a neighboring property line.
If it is any consolation, once construction is complete and the building is energized by the electrical utility company, generators are usually just for backup/emergency power, and typically only operate for maybe 30 minutes per month, just to test and maintain them.
If you truly believe someone is dumping toxic material into the public curb/gutter/storm drainage system, then call your city Hall and ask for Code Enforcement, and ask them for a field inspection of this condition.
10' is usually the magic number for keeping motor exhaust away from a neighboring property line.
If it is any consolation, once construction is complete and the building is energized by the electrical utility company, generators are usually just for backup/emergency power, and typically only operate for maybe 30 minutes per month, just to test and maintain them.
Joe.B
Registered User
Yup, call the AHJ, report the problem and request an inspection. Through that process they will see if a permit was required and/or obtained. If they did everything by the book though this will likely be a civil matter. If that's the case (and if it's similar to CA law) chances are it would be easier to move than prevail in court....
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
They could raise the exhaust which may help with the smell. I don't have access to NFPA 37 maybe something in there will address your concerns.
915.1 General.
The installation of liquid-fueled stationary internal combustion engines and gas turbines, including exhaust, fuel storage and piping, shall meet the requirements of NFPA 37. Stationary engine generator assemblies shall meet the requirements of UL 2200.
915.2 Powered equipment and appliances.
Permanently installed equipment and appliances powered by internal combustion engines and turbines shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions and NFPA 37.
915.1 General.
The installation of liquid-fueled stationary internal combustion engines and gas turbines, including exhaust, fuel storage and piping, shall meet the requirements of NFPA 37. Stationary engine generator assemblies shall meet the requirements of UL 2200.
915.2 Powered equipment and appliances.
Permanently installed equipment and appliances powered by internal combustion engines and turbines shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions and NFPA 37.
NFPA does provide free viewing access if you register.
Scanned over CH. 8 - Engine Exhaust Systems. Unfortunately, nothing substantiative there. 8.2.3 - Exhaust System Termination does not even provide a distance specification for discharge.
Yikes
Gold Member
Off topic thread drift:
Early in my career, I designed a 4 story, 70 unit apartment building. Fresh air intake for the corridors was up on the roof, about 45' above the street corner.
I did not realize until after the project was occupied that the bus stop 80' across the street was perfectly positioned to deliver diesel exhaust straight into our air intake via prevailing breezes. These buses had their tailpipes oriented vertically on their roofs, to push the exhaust away from pedestrians.
The bus company used that particular stop as a break area for their drivers, who would sit and idle their engines for 15 minutes while they stepped off for a smoke.
The corridors inside the building always smelled of diesel. We ultimately had to reconfigure the ductwork across to the other side roof to get fresh air.
Moral of the story: there's no ironclad guarantee that placing an opening 80' and 4 stories away from an exhaust source will eliminate the problem.
Early in my career, I designed a 4 story, 70 unit apartment building. Fresh air intake for the corridors was up on the roof, about 45' above the street corner.
I did not realize until after the project was occupied that the bus stop 80' across the street was perfectly positioned to deliver diesel exhaust straight into our air intake via prevailing breezes. These buses had their tailpipes oriented vertically on their roofs, to push the exhaust away from pedestrians.
The bus company used that particular stop as a break area for their drivers, who would sit and idle their engines for 15 minutes while they stepped off for a smoke.
The corridors inside the building always smelled of diesel. We ultimately had to reconfigure the ductwork across to the other side roof to get fresh air.
Moral of the story: there's no ironclad guarantee that placing an opening 80' and 4 stories away from an exhaust source will eliminate the problem.
i HAVE READ THAT DIESEL FUEL EXHAUST IS ALSO A VAPOR AND CAN BE FLAMMABLE, THIS WOULD THEN REQUIRE 30 FEET DISTANCE WHICH I WOULD IIKE, I AM SICK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON, i CALLED CITY OF DALLAS ENVIRONMENTAL THEY CAME OUT TODAY AND THE DISCHARGE OUT OF THE GENERATOR WAS OFF, THEY HAD ALSO SPRAYED ALOT OF WHITE STUFF ON THE AREA OF THE DISCHARGE, i THINK IT WAS FIRE RETARDANT. THE INSPECTOR HAS BEEN ALERTED TO EVERYTHING BY ME, AND WILL NOT ENFORCE ANYTHING AT ALL. MY ROOF IS COVERED IN CONCRETE., AS WELL AS MY ENTIRE PROPERTY, THE PROTECTIVE SCREENING WAS ABSENT AND INSPECTOR DID NOTHING, HE HAS DONE NOTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING. A WORKER ALSO FELL TO HIS DEATH AND HE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT IT. THAT WAS NOT SURPRISING TO ME, AFTER ALL I HAVE SEEN, IS THERE ANYONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT THE FLAMMABILITY OF THE DIESEL EXHAUST. THAT WOULD GIVE ME AN AVENEUE FOR 30 FEET, OTHERWISE, SITTING ON MY PORCH, WE ARE A MERE 13 FEET FROM THIS MESS, WE ARE HAVING HAMBURGERS FOR DINNER AND DIESEL FUEL FOR DESSERT, HUNGRY?
wHAT IS aHJ?
dID THAT TODAY, THE DISCHARGE IS OFF. THANKS.
Yikes
Gold Member
Not sure if you are aware of this, but typing in all caps can be considered the forum equivalent of shouting at us. Feel free to switch to lower case to reflect the calm and polite communication recommended by classicT in post #2.
AHJ = Authority Having Jurisdiction. Might be the city that issued the building permit. Or maybe you live in unincorporated county area, and the county issued the building permit.
The building inspector that is called out to inspect your neighbor's construction is tasked with inspecting for conformance to the approved permit set of plans. If the plans call for the exhaust to be 10' away from the property line, he typically does not have the authority in the field to override / un-permit what someone else in the department has already previously approved with a permit. The burden is on you to go to the building department offices and convince them it doesn't meet code.
You mentioned your roof is "covered in concrete". Again, that is not a building permit issue. It may be a property damage issue, so maybe you call your property insurance company and they will make a claim on your neighbor's property, but it has little or nothing to do with his inspection of the work that is under permit inside your neighbor's property line.
Instead of saying it "he is protecting the contractor, not the public", it may be more legally accurate to say, "his inspections are limited to the work that is under permit inside the property line, not other activities that are occurring outside the property line".
i DO NOT MEAN THIS TO BE SNOTTY AT ALL, SO DON'T TAKE IT THAT WAY, BUT IF THIS WERE YOUR FAMILY WOULD AMOUNT OF TIME FOR AN EXHAUST THAT CAUSES CANCER COMING RIGHT INTO YOUR YARD, DOORS, WINDOWS, AREA OF MOVING ABOUT ON THE PROPERTY BE OK ?
I was not aware of that, sorry, I am a computer illiterate. I apologize. Will go to building department about this.
Yankee Chronicler
Registered User
Maybe -- or maybe not.
You came here asking questions. Please wait until people have had an opportunity to answer some of your questions. As to the inspector -- please understand that, by law, the building code(s) is (are) considered to be the minimum standard for safety, health, and welfare. If something gets built that complies with the requirements of the applicable codes, then legally there is nothing a building official can do to help you. The job of the building official and inspectors is to enforce the code. They cannot legally do anything more than that.
Inspector Gadget
Registered User
It's 2023. Find the capslock key and use it.
Yikes
Gold Member
As a matter of fact, my own neighbor has their driveway 5' away from my bedroom window. They occasionally idle one of their cars, and yes the exhaust is not healthy. But it is only occasional, so it's no big deal. Likewise, our own gardeners fire up their gas-powered leaf blowers every Monday morning. Because it only occurs once a week, we make sure all the windows are shut at that time.
When emergency generators and the emergency systems they serve are being installed, they are often tested for extended periods. After that, the use usually drops way down, to save on fuel costs. Have you heard whether this neighbor intends to run the generator constantly once the building is occupied? Of will they only run it in an emergency or as part of a monthly test, in which case that's not much different than your neighbor occasionally idling a vehicle near their property line.
Aside from that, we are telling you to take the building permit out of the equation, as once the generator location is determined to be code compliant, any discussion about use is beyond the scope of the building construction inspector.
Think of it this way: If one day your neighbor was burning tires next to your property line, would you call the building inspector? I suspect you would instead call municipal code enforcement, or perhaps call your councilperson's office; maybe they would check with the planning (not building) department to see if that was a permissible use.
If your neighbor was playing paintball and they shot paint all over your roof, would you call the building inspector? Or would you call your insurance company (and they might make a claim against your neighbor's insurance company), or maybe call the police if your think it is a type of vandalism? (Making an analogy to the concrete you said the got on your roof.)
Here in California, we have additional environmental regulations that (no surprise here) you may not have in Texas. Every new development is subject to the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA). If the environmental impact study did not take generator use into account, you could potentially sue under CEQA. If the generator was not approved by the Air Quality Management District, they could also provide enforcement.
My point is, you may have an environmental issue, but not a building code inspection issue.
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Actually, it is 2024. You are all alot younger than me, computer use was not around until 25 years after I graduated college. I do not facebook, twitter, any of that, so I apologize for caps, just did not know. Thank you all for your very helpful information. This is upsetting because I work in my yard, this exhaust pipe is 11 feet from where I garden, I have already battled lung cancer, it is very frightening and your just lucky to be alive.
ICE
Oh Well
Thankfully, that will become illegal.. and not soon enough. Three days a week gardeners are disrupting the ambiance and harshing my gig. Our new windows have made a difference but I’d still like to run over leaf blowers.
Let’s have compassion for the exhausted member from Dallas. What he is experiencing is a thing I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Perhaps when the owner takes possession of the building you can talk with them about notifying you 24 hrs. before the day and time that they will be testing the generator, so you know in advance and won't be caught by surprise and get prepared for when it will take place.
Example: close your windows, go for a walk, sometimes just knowing when something is going to happen makes it easier to deal with.
FYI: The problems you are having while the construction has been taking place are caused by the various contractors working on the site and not the owner of the building. So, a word of advice, they will be your neighbors for a long time. so, try to build a positive repour with them from the start.
Maybe someone can explain why the termination point of the exhaust will be 30 feet from the property line if the product in the pipe is flammable or explosive, and only 10 feet from the property line if it is hazardous to health causing cancers. This does not make sense. And, are they referring to the diesel fuel exhaust or the diesel fuel?
ICE
Oh Well
The section that you refer to is for ducts. Your problem is the exhaust pipe from a generator. I’m not sure that there is anything in the codes for that. If there is a code solution Shirley, someone will weigh in.
steveray
SAWHORSE
I thought there was something in NFPA 37, but I don't see it there currently....Best thing is this....But a bit of a stretch....Or shall I say open to interpretation...
8.2.3.2
Exhaust system terminations shall not be directed toward combustible materials or structures or into atmospheres containing flammable gases, flammable vapors, or combustible dusts unless the engine generator assembly and exhaust system are listed to UL 2200, Stationary Engine Generator Assemblies, and the installation meets the manufacturer’s minimum offset distances.