Exception for table 705.8 Maximum are of exterior wall openings

[meg]

I have an odd situation. I'm working on an existing two story building in a downtown that has a parking lot to the south and an one story existing building on the north. The lot line on the north and south are right on the outside edge of the north and south walls. The local officials have stated that I can add windows to the north and south walls but wouldn't give me an exception table 705.8. They have allowed other buildings to add fire rated, non-operable windows on lot lines to existing and new buildings even though these buildings are on lot lines and have a fire separation distance of 0'. Does anyone know of an exception? Or if a fire rated window will work?

The only response I've gotten from the code official and the fire Marshall is "that is how interpret the code and we want to work with business". this brings up a second question, can a code office or fire Marshall interpret or approve of anything with out it being in compliance with the code?

Thanks,
Meg

 

[classicT]

I am not real sure how they are doing it, but sounds like political pressure gets ya a pass from the AHJ on some items. Won't save you from potential litigation and could jeopardize your professional license (if as I speculate, are an architect).

 

[meg]

classicT,

Thanks for your response. I don't think any of these exceptions apply. Could they be referencing be just referencing 716 via 706.8 even though they are not buildings on the same lot.

Meg

 

[classicT]

classicT,

Thanks for your response. I don't think any of these exceptions apply. Could they be referencing be just referencing 716 via 706.8 even though they are not buildings on the same lot.

Meg

I don't think so... I think that they just have an internal policy from poor prior practice that accepts these openings.

Unfortunately a number of AHJ will look at something, know that it is wrong, and choose to ignore so that the peace is kept. They know that if things go south, they are indemnified and that it was the design professional who should have known better.

"that is how interpret the code and we want to work with business"

 

[meg]

I don't think so... I think that they just have an internal policy from poor prior practice that accepts these openings.

Unfortunately a number of AHJ will look at something, know that it is wrong, and choose to ignore so that the peace is kept. They know that if things go south, they are indemnified and that it was the design professional who should have known better.

I agree.

Once last thing. I found this on the Safti First website claiming that if it's fire resistive glazing it can go in a wall with 0' fire separation but don't know where in the code they were referencing and it's from 2012. Under the section "Do the same limits apply to fire resistive glazing?"

https://www.safti.com/emails/The-IBC-and-Exterior-Fire-Rated-Openings.html

 

[RLGA]

There is a way--Provide fire-resistance-rated glazing per Section 716.1.2.3 (2018 edition), which are not required to comply with Section 716. Fire-resistance-rated glazing complies with the same standards required for fire-rated walls; thus, it is really a transparent wall. Exterior wall openings are required to have opening protectives per IBC Section 716, which applies only to fire-protection-rated glazing systems.

Fire-resistance-rated glazing systems cannot be operable and they must be provided in approved framing systems. This type of glazing system is not inexpensive.

 

[meg]

There is a way--Provide fire-resistance-rated glazing per Section 716.1.2.3 (2018 edition), which are not required to comply with Section 716. Fire-resistance-rated glazing complies with the same standards required for fire-rated walls; thus, it is really a transparent wall. Exterior wall openings are required to have opening protectives per IBC Section 716, which applies only to fire-protection-rated glazing systems.

Fire-resistance-rated glazing systems cannot be operable and they must be provided in approved framing systems. This type of glazing system is not inexpensive.

RLGA,

Thanks. This helps clarify things. The local official kept saying fire rated windows that threw me off. So according with 706.4 our fire-resistance rating is 3 hours for a B occupancy. So when you go down the rabbit hole that is the code it states that the fire-resistance-rated glazing it needs to comply with 707. Is that 707.4 or 707.6 Openings. Now that it's considered a wall which way do you go?

 

[RLGA]

Section 706 is for fire walls. According to your description, this is an exterior wall located on the lot line--the fire-resistance rating for an exterior wall is based on Tables 601 and 602. Unless you are a Group H, the fire-resistance rating is not required to be more than 2 hours; for a Group B, the rating only needs to be 1 hour per Table 602--it may be higher depending on your construction type and the loadbearing situation for that exterior wall.

 

[meg]

Section 706 is for fire walls. According to your description, this is an exterior wall located on the lot line--the fire-resistance rating for an exterior wall is based on Tables 601 and 602. Unless you are a Group H, the fire-resistance rating is not required to be more than 2 hours; for a Group B, the rating only needs to be 1 hour per Table 602--it may be higher depending on your construction type and the loadbearing situation for that exterior wall.

Thanks so much!