Existing Mixed-Use Building Question

[rshuey]

Existing historic building has 5 mercantile and business spaces on ground floor and 23 apartments on the 2nd and 3rd floors.

There is a huge apartment, 4 br, 2 bath and 2500 sf on the 3rd floor the owner would like to split the apartment into 2.

Any issues you see with that? I have the proper separations, stamped drawings, proper electrical etc. What about sprinklers?

The building is type 5B, no sprinklers, one main egress, one ****ty half-assed egress walking across a 3:12 roof.

We use 09 IEBC, IBC and 08 NEC.

Happy Monday!

 

[brudgers]

With 23 existing apartments, requiring the building to be sprinklered is a stretch, IMO.

BTW, 1500 square feet is hardly huge.

 

[rshuey]

I agree, and it is 2500. Sorry about that.

 

[kilitact]

Existing historic building has 5 mercantile and business spaces on ground floor and 23 apartments on the 2nd and 3rd floors.There is a huge apartment, 4 br, 2 bath and 2500 sf on the 3rd floor the owner would like to split the apartment into 2.

Any issues you see with that? I have the proper separations, stamped drawings, proper electrical etc. What about sprinklers?

The building is type 5B, no sprinklers, one main egress, one ****ty half-assed egress walking across a 3:12 roof.

We use 09 IEBC, IBC and 08 NEC.

Happy Monday!

If your using the 2009 IBC, how would this not drive the requirement for the installation of fire sprinklers?

 

[rshuey]

That's my question, how would it?

It's a small space. Do I require sprinklers in the work area only? The number of occupants really isn't going to change. It's just a strange one.

Making the GC put a suppression system in 2500 SF of a 54000 SF building seems funny.

 

[JMORRISON]

Have them qualify using Section 3412 Compliance Alternatives

 

[RLGA]

I believe the 2009 IEBC does not require a sprinkler system to be installed.

This would be classified as a Level 2 Alteration. Section 704.2.2 covers the installation of sprinkler systems and to require sprinklers the following conditions must exist:

1. The corridor on the floor serves an occupant load of more than 30.

2. The work area exceeds 50% of the floor area.

3. There is sufficient municipal water supply for the sprinkler system.

In my opinion, dividing a large apartment improves the safety situation of the building. Technically, a 2500 sq. ft. apartment would require two exits because the occupant load exceeds 10 (2500/200 = 12 occupants), which I doubt exists. The division of the larger apartment would reduce the occupant load and, additionally, reduce the common path of egress travel for each smaller apartment.

 

[fatboy]

I would not require the spinklers be installed, for all the reasons above. FWIW

 

[mtlogcabin]

Agree sprinklers would not be required.

The new unit would have to be a Type "B" for accessibility

It would be a good time to address the exit across the 3/12 pitched roof and see if you could get some improvements there.

 

[rshuey]

Thank you all. I was thinking the same thing, but being a 1-man show, it's nice to get other's opinions.

 

[kilitact]

Thank you all. I was thinking the same thing, but being a 1-man show, it's nice to get other's opinions.

At what point would these others opinons require fire sprinklers? You could end up with 46 apts, 23 additional kitchens and still no requirement for fire sprinklers? I'm not seeing this allowance in either IEBC or IBC.

 

[mtlogcabin]

At what point would these others opinons require fire sprinklers? You could end up with 46 apts, 23 additional kitchens and still no requirement for fire sprinklers? I'm not seeing this allowance in either IEBC or IBC.

There is a huge apartment, 4 br, 2 bath and 2500 sf on the 3rd floor the owner would like to split the apartment into 2.

I believe he is talking about one apartment only that the work will be taking place in

 

[kilitact]

I believe he is talking about one apartment only that the work will be taking place in

I thought he was talking about splitting 1 apt into two apt's. New (additional) kitchen, bath and living space. Now there will be 24 apts not 23.