Exit Access Stairs in R-2 corridor

[Prairie Dog]

Having a debate within the office about the code worthiness of this egress scheme. Curious what the forum thinks.

3 story building. 1st floor commercial with 2 stories R-2 above. Sprinkled. Current design has 2 open exit access stairs within the level 2 and 3 corridors providing egress from the R-2 stories. At level 1 the stairs are separated from the rest of the floor by rated construction, though they are open from the 1st floor landing up to the 3rd floor. We’re fine on exit travel distance from 3rd floor to the 1st floor exit. Is this possible?

712.1.9 Two-story openings. In other than Groups I-2 and I-3, a vertical opening that is not used as one of the applications listed in this section shall be permitted if the opening complies with all of the following items:

1. Does not connect more than two stories.
2. Does not penetrate a horizontal assembly that separates fire areas or smoke barriers that separate smoke compartments.
3. Is not concealed within the construction of a wall or a floor/ceiling assembly.
4. Is not open to a corridor in Group I and R occupancies.
5. Is not open to a corridor on nonsprinklered floors.
6. Is separated from floor openings and air transfer openings serving other floors by construction conforming to required shaft enclosures.

OK, so 712.1.9.2 says you can’t do a 2 story opening within a R occupancy corridor. But then 712.1.12 says you can do exit access stairs and ramps as long as they comply with 1019.

1019.3 Occupancies other than Groups I-2 and I-3. In other than Group I-2 and I-3 occupancies, floor openings containing exit access stairways or ramps that do not comply with one of the conditions listed in this section shall be enclosed with a shaft enclosure constructed in accordance with Section 713.

1. Exit access stairways and ramps that serve or atmospherically communicate between only two stories. Such interconnected stories shall not be open to other stories.
2. In Group R-1, R-2 or R-3 occupancies, exit access stairways and ramps connecting four stories or less serving and contained within an individual dwelling unit or sleeping unit or live/work unit.
3. Exit access stairways serving and contained within a Group R-3 congregate residence or a Group R-4 facility are not required to be enclosed.
4. Exit access stairways and ramps in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, where the area of the vertical opening between stories does not exceed twice the horizontal projected area of the stairway or ramp and the opening is protected by a draft curtain and closely spaced sprinklers in accordance with NFPA 13. In other than Group B and M occupancies, this provision is limited to openings that do not connect more than four stories.
5. Exit access stairways and ramps within an atrium complying with the provisions of Section 404.
6. Exit access stairways and ramps in open parking garages that serve only the parking garage.
7. Exit access stairways and ramps serving smoke-protected or open-air assembly seating complying with the exit access travel distance requirements of Section 1029.7.
8. Exit access stairways and ramps between the balcony, gallery or press box and the main assembly floor in occupancies such as theaters, places of religious worship, auditoriums and sports facilities.

OK, so 1019.3 only requires that you meet one of the 8 conditions listed. If we follow #4 we are suddenly allowed 4 stories of open stair as long as we buy the full NFPA 13 sprinkler system and put draft curtains at the floor openings. I don’t see a prohibition for throwing these openings within rated corridors. It doesn't feel right to me - but there's nothing in this section or 1020 that seems to prohibit it.

But then there’s 1006.3.1:

1006.3.1 Adjacent story. The path of egress travel to an exit shall not pass through more than one adjacent story.

If the stairs and landings from 2nd floor to 1st floor are separated from the rest of the floor by 1 hour rated construction does the path of egress actually pass through the story? I tend to think that yes- this qualifies as “passing through a story” and thus this scheme is not allowed. Sure they’re not atmospherically connected but this scheme requires you to walk 3 stories of stairs from the top floor before you hit an exit (the exterior door).

But then again, I can’t explain why 1019.3 allows 4 story exit access stairs if 1006.3.1 effectively prohibits them.

 

[cda]

Welcome in away

Guess you know it all??

1st post

 

[cda]

Simple floor plan might help

 

[cda]

So the stair enclosures are not rated shafts??

 

[cda]

Having a debate within the office about the code worthiness of this egress scheme. Curious what the forum thinks.

3 story building. 1st floor commercial with 2 stories R-2 above. Sprinkled. Current design has 2 open exit access stairs within the level 2 and 3 corridors providing egress from the R-2 stories. At level 1 the stairs are separated from the rest of the floor by rated construction, though they are open from the 1st floor landing up to the 3rd floor. We’re fine on exit travel distance from 3rd floor to the 1st floor exit. Is this possible?

712.1.9 Two-story openings. In other than Groups I-2 and I-3, a vertical opening that is not used as one of the applications listed in this section shall be permitted if the opening complies with all of the following items:

1. Does not connect more than two stories.
2. Does not penetrate a horizontal assembly that separates fire areas or smoke barriers that separate smoke compartments.
3. Is not concealed within the construction of a wall or a floor/ceiling assembly.
4. Is not open to a corridor in Group I and R occupancies.
5. Is not open to a corridor on nonsprinklered floors.
6. Is separated from floor openings and air transfer openings serving other floors by construction conforming to required shaft enclosures.

OK, so 712.1.9.2 says you can’t do a 2 story opening within a R occupancy corridor. But then 712.1.12 says you can do exit access stairs and ramps as long as they comply with 1019.

1019.3 Occupancies other than Groups I-2 and I-3. In other than Group I-2 and I-3 occupancies, floor openings containing exit access stairways or ramps that do not comply with one of the conditions listed in this section shall be enclosed with a shaft enclosure constructed in accordance with Section 713.

1. Exit access stairways and ramps that serve or atmospherically communicate between only two stories. Such interconnected stories shall not be open to other stories.
2. In Group R-1, R-2 or R-3 occupancies, exit access stairways and ramps connecting four stories or less serving and contained within an individual dwelling unit or sleeping unit or live/work unit.
3. Exit access stairways serving and contained within a Group R-3 congregate residence or a Group R-4 facility are not required to be enclosed.
4. Exit access stairways and ramps in buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, where the area of the vertical opening between stories does not exceed twice the horizontal projected area of the stairway or ramp and the opening is protected by a draft curtain and closely spaced sprinklers in accordance with NFPA 13. In other than Group B and M occupancies, this provision is limited to openings that do not connect more than four stories.
5. Exit access stairways and ramps within an atrium complying with the provisions of Section 404.
6. Exit access stairways and ramps in open parking garages that serve only the parking garage.
7. Exit access stairways and ramps serving smoke-protected or open-air assembly seating complying with the exit access travel distance requirements of Section 1029.7.
8. Exit access stairways and ramps between the balcony, gallery or press box and the main assembly floor in occupancies such as theaters, places of religious worship, auditoriums and sports facilities.

OK, so 1019.3 only requires that you meet one of the 8 conditions listed. If we follow #4 we are suddenly allowed 4 stories of open stair as long as we buy the full NFPA 13 sprinkler system and put draft curtains at the floor openings. I don’t see a prohibition for throwing these openings within rated corridors. It doesn't feel right to me - but there's nothing in this section or 1020 that seems to prohibit it.

But then there’s 1006.3.1:

1006.3.1 Adjacent story. The path of egress travel to an exit shall not pass through more than one adjacent story.

If the stairs and landings from 2nd floor to 1st floor are separated from the rest of the floor by 1 hour rated construction does the path of egress actually pass through the story? I tend to think that yes- this qualifies as “passing through a story” and thus this scheme is not allowed. Sure they’re not atmospherically connected but this scheme requires you to walk 3 stories of stairs from the top floor before you hit an exit (the exterior door).

But then again, I can’t explain why 1019.3 allows 4 story exit access stairs if 1006.3.1 effectively prohibits them.

NO,,,

OK, so 1019.3 only requires that you meet one of the 8 conditions listed. If we follow #4 we are suddenly allowed 4 stories of open stair as long as we buy the full NFPA 13 sprinkler system and put draft curtains at the floor openings


I call this the “”escalator rule”””

Like you would Find in a four story anchor store.

 

[Paul Sweet]

It would have to meet all of these sections.

712.1.9 requires the stairs to be separated from the corridor.

1019.3.4 allows an exit access stair to be in a complying 4-story opening, but doesn't override the other 2 sections.

1006.3.1 limits you to passing through more than one story.

You could have an exit access stair from the second story to the first within a 3 or 4-story opening, but you can't have one from the third story.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Welcome in away

Guess you know it all??

1st post

LOL, clearly not! Long time lurker. The discussions here have frequently been helpful.

 

[Prairie Dog]

It would have to meet all of these sections.

712.1.9 requires the stairs to be separated from the corridor.

Commentary states that "This provision addresses the issue of floor openings that are not a part of the required means of egress, such as unconcealed openings providing the same purpose as an atrium between two stories."

These openings are to accommodate an exit access stair so that would make it part of a means of egress. Seems to me that 712.1.12 and 1019.3 are setting more stringent rules for floor openings containing a means of egress stair. It's strange to me that it doesn't contain the R occupancy corridor prohibition but I don't see it in there.

1019.3.4 allows an exit access stair to be in a complying 4-story opening, but doesn't override the other 2 sections.

1006.3.1 limits you to passing through more than one story.

You could have an exit access stair from the second story to the first within a 3 or 4-story opening, but you can't have one from the third story.

The words "pass through" is the crux of the debate. Does "pass through" mean walk down stairs adjacent to another occupied floor, or do you have to be atmospherically exposed to the floor to "pass through".

 

[cda]

Are you able to post a simple floor plan, mainly with what happens at the second floor to first floor Area

 

[Prairie Dog]

Are you able to post a simple floor plan, mainly with what happens at the second floor to first floor Area

Struggling a bit with how to post an image.... let's see if this works

exit scheme.JPG

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Section is probably more helpful for understanding. The stairs at level one are enclosed like they would be in a stair shaft... except that they're completely open to levels 2 and 3 above.

 

[cda]

Struggling a bit with how to post an image.... let's see if this works

exit scheme.JPG

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Section is probably more helpful for understanding. The stairs at level one are enclosed like they would be in a stair shaft... except that they're completely open to levels 2 and 3 above.

Well, saying nicely, so as not to scare you off,

If you were a forum supporting Sawhorse, you can direct upload with no problem, instead of in the lurker class.

There is hope you to can be a Sawhorse!!

 

[cda]

Struggling a bit with how to post an image.... let's see if this works

exit scheme.JPG

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Section is probably more helpful for understanding. The stairs at level one are enclosed like they would be in a stair shaft... except that they're completely open to levels 2 and 3 above.

II Will have to read over the two floors open to each other, might meet that

 

[cda]

Struggling a bit with how to post an image.... let's see if this works

exit scheme.JPG

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Section is probably more helpful for understanding. The stairs at level one are enclosed like they would be in a stair shaft... except that they're completely open to levels 2 and 3 above.

Never mind with the design

712.1.9 Two-story openings. Will not work for you.

 

[cda]

Struggling a bit with how to post an image.... let's see if this works

exit scheme.JPG

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Section is probably more helpful for understanding. The stairs at level one are enclosed like they would be in a stair shaft... except that they're completely open to levels 2 and 3 above.

I know you submitted simple layout, can doors be installed at each landing on 2 and 3?


If all else fails, wait for RLGA to come in and save the day.