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Fab-Form Footing/Foundation Wall system

jaybrown

Registered User
Joined
Jun 29, 2022
Messages
3
Location
Delaware County, PA
Definitely interesting. The plans are signed off by an engineer but no testing makes me iffy. I’m waiting to hear back from the company in regards to a UL listing but they said the “bag” footing couldn’t get a ICC report because it’s considered a temporary form. ICC reasoning is you wouldn’t get a report on temporary wood forms for footings.
 

mtlogcabin

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
8,804
Location
Big Sky Country
I used them on my house in 04. They don't look pretty but they did the job. They system to hold the ICF up and pour all concrete at once was not available back then if it was I do not think I would have gone with it for my house.
 

Mark K

Platinum Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
2,191
This product is not addressed in the IBC so the only way they can justify it is if they use the IBC provisions and more specifically ACI 318.

I would want the rebar inspection to verify the concrete cover on the reinforcing steel.

The issue of a bag form is not a concern. What needs to be verified is the design complies with ACI 318 and that the installed concrete dimensions of the base are consistent with the design.

A UL listing is not relevant with respect to the structural issues.
 

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
870
Location
Clayton NY
It seems a fab form footing meets the requirements and the ICF wall does, so not sure why pouring them together would be an issue. The rebar inspection, if required in the footer, might take some accomodation, but seems it could be done after supports and fab form is in place and before ICFs are set.

Not sure the system appeals to me, since it's savings is in labor and the materials are expensive, but interesting.
 

Sifu

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
2,055
Just watched the 20+ minute video of an install. Pretty slick, two guys...one or two days?? Definitely worth exploring. Is the ICF proprietary with the bag footings? Is there an ESR report? I like it so far, just not sure how the approval would go. Forms are somewhat codified in the IRC, but without much guidance. As an engineered system with appropriate inspection I like it, although I'm not 100% sure it couldn't go prescriptive, where that is allowed by the AHJ.
 

ICE

Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
10,789
Location
Ca. concrete jungle
Just watched the 20+ minute video of an install. Pretty slick, two guys...one or two days?? Definitely worth exploring. Is the ICF proprietary with the bag footings? Is there an ESR report? I like it so far, just not sure how the approval would go. Forms are somewhat codified in the IRC, but without much guidance. As an engineered system with appropriate inspection I like it, although I'm not 100% sure it couldn't go prescriptive, where that is allowed by the AHJ.

No listing required....no ICC ESR required. Beats edge forms hands down.
 
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fatboy

Administrator
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
6,611
Location
Northern CO
Definitely interesting. The plans are signed off by an engineer but no testing makes me iffy. I’m waiting to hear back from the company in regards to a UL listing but they said the “bag” footing couldn’t get a ICC report because it’s considered a temporary form. ICC reasoning is you wouldn’t get a report on temporary wood forms for footings.
With the engineer's stamp, I would allow it.
 

Paul Sweet

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Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
1,992
Location
Bedford, VA
It looks OK structurally as long as the footing width and depth meet code requirements. My main concern is how to install a footing drain.
 

Sifu

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
2,055
It looks OK structurally as long as the footing width and depth meet code requirements. My main concern is how to install a footing drain.
I wondered the same thing. I saw in one of the videos, two drains poking out of the bag, so they must have a detail for it.
 

Msradell

Sawhorse
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
1,125
Location
Louisville Kentucky
Would the engineer have anything to say about how the footing is formed? Why would anyone tell the engineer how the task will be accomplished.
I was thinking the same thing, engineer specifies that he wants a 24"x12" footing with #5 Bars Cont and #5 transverse Bars @ 24"for example. It's the contractors responsibility to make sure that's what happens! There is no need for the engineer to sign off on the design of the footings as long as they meet his specifications!
 

Genduct

Registered User
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
297
Location
Philadelphia PA
It looks OK structurally as long as the footing width and depth meet code requirements. My main concern is how to install a footing drain.
I agree, at the end of the day, ignore the "Means and Method" for the forming and the sack for concrete footing and look at the result and we have a concrete wall and footing. Just because it doesn't have staked 2 X to give you a square footing doesn't change it's ability to carry the load.
Probably the same comments made when the ICF system was first introduced
 

Genduct

Registered User
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
297
Location
Philadelphia PA
I agree, at the end of the day, ignore the "Means and Method" for the forming and the sack for concrete footing and look at the result and we have a concrete wall and footing. Just because it doesn't have staked 2 X to give you a square footing doesn't change it's ability to carry the load.
Probably the same comments made when the ICF system was first introduced
Probably stronger because no cold joint between wall and footing
 

fatboy

Administrator
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
6,611
Location
Northern CO
Would the engineer have anything to say about how the footing is formed? Why would anyone tell the engineer how the task will be accomplished.
I was speaking to the entire system, not the method. I don't see where you got there, other than you just love poking me.
 
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