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Fill the blocks or not to fill the blocks

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
44
Location
Alaska
The code does address what you are doing and it is load bearing. Since you stated your crawl space wall is 7 ft tall I would question the height of your column. As you can see in the codes below a solid grouted masonry pier will allow you to be much taller than an un-grouted pier and I think from your post grouting the piers will be required. Personally I would grout all the masonry in a high seismic zone.

R403.1.3.6 Isolated concrete footings.
In detached one- and two-family dwellings that are three stories or less in height and constructed with stud bearing walls, isolated plain concrete footings supporting columns or pedestals are permitted.

R404.1.9 Isolated masonry piers.
Isolated masonry piers shall be constructed in accordance with this section and the general masonry construction requirements of Section R606. Hollow masonry piers shall have a minimum nominal thickness of 8 inches (203 mm), with a nominal height not exceeding four times the nominal thickness and a nominal length not exceeding three times the nominal thickness. Where hollow masonry units are solidly filled with concrete or grout, piers shall be permitted to have a nominal height not exceeding ten times the nominal thickness. Footings for isolated masonry piers shall be sized in accordance with Section R403.1.1.

R404.1.9.2 Masonry piers supporting floor girders.
Masonry piers supporting wood girders sized in accordance with Tables R602.7(1) and R602.7(2) shall be permitted in accordance with this section. Piers supporting girders for interior bearing walls shall have a minimum nominal dimension of 12 inches (305 mm) and a maximum height of 10 feet (3048 mm) from top of footing to bottom of sill plate or girder. Piers supporting girders for exterior bearing walls shall have a minimum nominal dimension of 12 inches (305 mm) and a maximum height of 4 feet (1220 mm) from top of footing to bottom of sill plate or girder. Girders and sill plates shall be anchored to the pier or footing in accordance with Section R403.1.6 or Figure R404.1.5(1). Floor girder bearing shall be in accordance with Section R502.6
Thank you sir this is very helpful and what I was looking for. Much appreciated
 

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
44
Location
Alaska
The code does address what you are doing and it is load bearing. Since you stated your crawl space wall is 7 ft tall I would question the height of your column. As you can see in the codes below a solid grouted masonry pier will allow you to be much taller than an un-grouted pier and I think from your post grouting the piers will be required. Personally I would grout all the masonry in a high seismic zone.

R403.1.3.6 Isolated concrete footings.
In detached one- and two-family dwellings that are three stories or less in height and constructed with stud bearing walls, isolated plain concrete footings supporting columns or pedestals are permitted.

R404.1.9 Isolated masonry piers.
Isolated masonry piers shall be constructed in accordance with this section and the general masonry construction requirements of Section R606. Hollow masonry piers shall have a minimum nominal thickness of 8 inches (203 mm), with a nominal height not exceeding four times the nominal thickness and a nominal length not exceeding three times the nominal thickness. Where hollow masonry units are solidly filled with concrete or grout, piers shall be permitted to have a nominal height not exceeding ten times the nominal thickness. Footings for isolated masonry piers shall be sized in accordance with Section R403.1.1.

R404.1.9.2 Masonry piers supporting floor girders.
Masonry piers supporting wood girders sized in accordance with Tables R602.7(1) and R602.7(2) shall be permitted in accordance with this section. Piers supporting girders for interior bearing walls shall have a minimum nominal dimension of 12 inches (305 mm) and a maximum height of 10 feet (3048 mm) from top of footing to bottom of sill plate or girder. Piers supporting girders for exterior bearing walls shall have a minimum nominal dimension of 12 inches (305 mm) and a maximum height of 4 feet (1220 mm) from top of footing to bottom of sill plate or girder. Girders and sill plates shall be anchored to the pier or footing in accordance with Section R403.1.6 or Figure R404.1.5(1). Floor girder bearing shall be in accordance with Section R502.6
R404.1.9.2 That really helped.
 

tmurray

Registered User
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
2,138
Location
NB, Canada
So here is the deal. We see this a lot. Someone comes into our office asking a question that betrays how little they know about construction and to be fair in this case, it has nothing to do with your actual question, just the statement about what is "loadbearing". Many of us have enough experience in the construction industry that we see red flags when we have someone ask certain questions, not know basic design or construction criteria, etc.

So, you said you are under the international building code (IBC). Unfortunately, mtlogcabin's post is from the international residential code (IRC), which wouldn't apply here. The IRC contains prescriptive 'how to" options on completing construction. A cookbook analogy is usually how I describe it to people. The IBC in contrast prescribes the values and a little of the methodology to be used to calculate the design requirements for the structural elements of the building. It is almost always applied by structural engineers.

Will the IRC design work? Maybe. Hard to say without doing the structural calculations.
 

mtlogcabin

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
8,128
Location
Big Sky Country
2018 IBC
[A] 101.2 Scope.
The provisions of this code shall apply to the construction, alteration, relocation, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, maintenance, removal and demolition of every building or structure or any appurtenances connected or attached to such buildings or structures.

Exception: Detached one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses not more than three stories above grade plane in height with a separate means of egress, and their accessory structures not more than three stories above grade plane in height, shall comply with this code or the International Residential Code.
 

bill1952

Registered User
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
125
Location
Clayton NY
Pretty sure atvjoel meant IRC based on his previous thread(s) but your point is taken.

I would guess using IBC you might be able to get to a "less strong" design, but any savings probably eaten by design fees. :)
 
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