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Fire Department Sleeping Quarters and AFCI

jar546

jar546

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An electrical inspector recently told me that the bunk rooms (sleeping quarters) for a fire department are required to be AFCI-protected and I disagree. I cannot find any NEC code in the 2017 or 2020 NEC that would require AFCI protection in these areas.
 
Like Rick said...if it meets one of the definitions in/ from 210.12...Absolutely....16 FF...Dorm, could be a dwelling unit, or could be a guest room...
 
jar546 said:
Yes, understood. It does not meet the definition, therefore it is my opinion that AFCI is not required. Debate?
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Nope...as the AHJ you can make that call...I have seen some that do, and I have seen some that don't....But if they have a kitchen and bathing, it's pretty hard to get out of...

Dwelling Unit.
A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. (CMP-2)
 
steveray said:
it's pretty hard to get out of...
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I'd say damned near impossible. Even if there isn't the requisite features of a dwelling unit, there's people sleeping ... that gets special treatment. And what are you talking about expense wise? A few hundred dollars.
 
The ambulance company with EMT's argue with me on installing a battery type smoke detector in a temporary sleeping setup while their building was being remodeled.

Hey a dollar is a dollar!
 
ICE said:
I'd say damned near impossible. Even if there isn't the requisite features of a dwelling unit, there's people sleeping ... that gets special treatment. And what are you talking about expense wise? A few hundred dollars.
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You know me..always willing to give JAR a way out...Hate to bust his chops...
 
jar546 said:
Yes, understood. It does not meet the definition, therefore it is my opinion that AFCI is not required. Debate?
Click to expand...

How does it not meet the definition of "dormitory"?

DORMITORY. A space in a building where group
sleeping accommodations are provided in one room, or in a
series of closely associated rooms, for persons not members of
the same family group, under joint occupancy and single
management, as in college dormitories or fraternity houses.
Click to expand...

Do people sleep there? [check]
Are the people not members of the same family group? [check]
Is the facility under single management? [check]
 
jar546 said:
Yes, understood. It does not meet the definition, therefore it is my opinion that AFCI is not required. Debate?
Click to expand...
1700687739698.png

Jar Jar Binks thinks that Jar is playing the devils advocate.


FD bunk rooms are a dormitory and require AFCI.
 
classicT said:
View attachment 12059

Jar Jar Binks thinks that Jar is playing the devils advocate.


FD bunk rooms are a dormitory and require AFCI.
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2020 NEC Dorm is 16 people...

Dormitory Unit.

A building or a space in a building in which group sleeping accommodations are provided for more than 16 persons who are not members of the same family in one room, or a series of closely associated rooms, under joint occupancy and single management, with or without meals, but without individual cooking facilities. (CMP 2)

I noticed that they seem to have tweaked that and the sleeping unit terminology....it's almost like NFPA was trying to give the FD special treatment....;)
 
steveray said:
2020 NEC Dorm is 16 people...

Dormitory Unit.

A building or a space in a building in which group sleeping accommodations are provided for more than 16 persons who are not members of the same family in one room, or a series of closely associated rooms, under joint occupancy and single management, with or without meals, but without individual cooking facilities. (CMP 2)

I noticed that they seem to have tweaked that and the sleeping unit terminology....it's almost like NFPA was trying to give the FD special treatment....;)
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Well it depends on the size of the station in the amount of equipment responding from it. I've seen many cases where there are that many people on duty at a station.
 
SCBO1 said:
The ambulance company with EMT's argue with me on installing a battery type smoke detector in a temporary sleeping setup while their building was being remodeled.
Click to expand...

I'd presume the EMTs have pulled enough dead bodies out of enough burned buildings, and treated enough people for smoke inhalation where smoke alarms weren't installed to have a different view of the matter.
 
I wonder if the 16 person threshold is to allow buildings sleeping fewer than 16 to be considered single-family dwellings or R-3.

I tried to look up the definitions and where AFCI was required, but the NFPA free codes viewer link is broken. I had to sign in and reset my password on their new "improved" website before the list of codes appeared, but when I tried to open the free view of the 2020 code I got the message:
"User journey went into a bad state. Claims exchange with id 'LocalAccountSigninEmailExchange' could not be found in orchestration step '7'."
 
Inspector Gadget said:
I'd presume the EMTs have pulled enough dead bodies out of enough burned buildings, and treated enough people for smoke inhalation where smoke alarms weren't installed to have a different view of the matter.
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The EMT Chief and his Architect was not wanting to install a temporary smoke detector in their sleeping area during their remodeling. They didn't feel it was necessary and questioned my AHJ.

IG, Sorry for the confusion in my post.
 
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