fire house with sleeping quarters R1?

[BSSTG]

Greetings all,

I'm assuming this would be correct thus requiring sprinklers.

thoughts

BS

 

[permitguy]

I'd lean towards R-2, but the sprinklers would be required either way.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Agree with the R-2 and sprinklers required. Just finished the addition to ours. The grant required sprinklers throughout the entire fire department portion of the public safety building (fire, police & courts)

 

[MarkRandall]

As a matter of principle, all firehouses should have sprinklers throughout.

 

[High Desert]

As a matter of principle, all firehouses should have sprinklers throughout.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Alias]

I couldn't agree more.

Ditto here.

 

[brudgers]

As a matter of principle, all firehouses should have sprinklers throughout.

That of course is nonsense.

In rural areas without water service, the life safety benefit to the community of a fire station far outweighs the nominal benefit of sprinklering the building.

 

[fatboy]

I have to (bummer, heavy sigh) agree with brudgers on this. Although the high road would be to fire sprinkler all FS's, the reality is, sometimes it don't make sense. My local FD did a substantial remodel a couple years back, nothing in the scope would have driven sprinklers. The current Chief said, "We're the FD! Of course we'll retrofit the building!". Well, it would have wiped out over half the remodel budget, that they had been waiting on for many years. (not planning on sprinks) They ended up proceeding without sprinks. They know what they are doing there, you would think anyways..............

 

[Mr. Inspector]

most fire stations I see need sprinklers because of comercial truck storage fire area over 3,000 sq ft. (IBC 903.2.9(4))

 

[fatboy]

oh, on the surface of things, yes IBC would drive sprinklers in new installation.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

That of course is nonsense.In rural areas without water service, the life safety benefit to the community of a fire station far outweighs the nominal benefit of sprinklering the building.

Same goes for Police Stations, Hospitals and Building Departments? Could Fire Barriers partition the building so it wouldn't require Fire Sprinklering?

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

S-2 has a 5,000 SF cut-off for sprinklers, and if your fire department was made up of only two families, thus qualifying for the residential side to be a duplex, and the B could be accessory or home business with a little give and take, looking something like this:

B/S-2 |FB| R-3

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

most fire stations I see need sprinklers because of comercial truck storage fire area over 3,000 sq ft. (IBC 903.2.9(4))

2006 IBC is a bit different: 903.2.9.1 "...where the fire area exceeds 5,000 SF."

 

[FredK]

Always hate the idea of not having all the stuff (sprinklers and smokes, ADA restrooms) and setting an example, instead of "we're too cheap" to add them because of budget, etc......

Here they built a "Leed certified" buildings and instead of putting a water shutoff on all buildings (3 total) in the complex they put one on the main. Guess what happens when they have to work on some part of the system?

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Architect1281]

In any case when you provide space for sleeping this is the definition.

SLEEPING UNIT.

A room or space in which people sleep, which can also include permanent provisions for living, eating, and either sanitation

or kitchen facilities but not both. Such rooms and spaces that are also part of a dwelling unit are not sleeping units.

So the " Room or Space in which people sleep" would be key. A fire station may also provide sanitation and a kitchen which,

if both, would place that space, or room, or portion, into the Residential Use Occupancy

310.1 Residential Group R.

Residential Group R includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for sleeping purposes when not

classified as an Institutional Group I (don't want that) or when not regulated by the International Residential Code in accordance

with Section 101.2. Residential occupancies shall include the following:

Most likely a dormortory depending on arrangement so R-2 as either a sleeping unit or a dwelling unit depending on Kitchen and Sanitation arrangements.

SO seeing as Fire service elements thought so much about 1& 2 family residential fire supression in Minnesota the answer is Yup!

and the supression is THROUHOUT THE STRUCTURE even if the residential is its own fire area cause of this.

[F] 903.2.8 Group R. An automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3 shall be provided

throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area.

 

[Architect1281]

That of course is nonsense.In rural areas without water service, the life safety benefit to the community of a fire station far outweighs the nominal benefit of sprinklering the building.

Ah Dear Brudgers! to guote a far far higher athourity than any code:

Spock: That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Kirk: Or the one.

Spock: You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always shall be yours.

 

[hlfireinspector]

One new fire station last year (sprinklers) Grant last year to sprinkler other 2 fire stations, Work just starting. We will be 100% sprinkler coverage. Who is going to fight the fire when we leave the food on the stove?

 

[Architect1281]

One new fire station last year (sprinklers) Grant last year to sprinkler other 2 fire stations, Work just starting. We will be 100% sprinkler coverage. Who is going to fight the fire when we leave the food on the stove?

Would never happen it's a FIRE STATION maybe they should call them Supression Stations??????????

http://www.firefightingnews.com/article.cfm?articleID=85085

and the list goes on

http://www.seaviewwa.com/2006/12/blog-post.html

 

[brudgers]

Same goes for Police Stations, Hospitals and Building Departments? Could Fire Barriers partition the building so it wouldn't require Fire Sprinklering?

Fire stations are different in that they are frequently located in very rural areas whereas hospitals are never and police departments rarely located in such areas.

On the other hand, if the building department burns, all the better as far as the general public is concerned.

 

[brudgers]

Would never happen it's a FIRE STATION maybe they should call them Supression Stations?

Haven't you read Fahrenheit 451?

 

[Architect1281]

Respect to disagree with Brudgers on seperating to avoind rest of structure as 903 states containg a group R FIRE AREA which (UNLESS A SEPERATE BUILDING) indicates a fire seperation of some kind / any kind, as I splain when being the instructor if you hav a non residential structure of any type and introduce a residential use within

or added to (NOT SEPERATE BUILDING) you could enclose the residential use in a 12 hour concrete bunker and the mixed seperated or non seperated uses would be supressed THROUGHOUT

Haven't you read Fahrenheit 451 (Missed that one)

 

[brudgers]

I agree with you on what the code says.

However, there are cases where applying the letter of the code is a mistake because it goes against the prime directive (or spirit of the code).

A rural volunteer fire station may be one of those because requiring fire sprinklers can make construction infeasible - and I'll add is not a requirement based on statistical evidence, just the lacking in common sense shotgun approach typical of the IBC.

 

[Architect1281]

True that's why in RI 2010 IRC residential supression is OPTIONAL

and variance or waivers are done by application and board approval - they do it then I can enforce to waiver

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Haven't you read Fahrenheit 451?

my school burned that book.

Fire stations are different in that they are frequently located in very rural areas whereas hospitals are never and police departments rarely located in such areas.

sheriff's departments are often located in rural areas and rural clinics are often located in rural areas as well.