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Fire Marshal Certifications and Qualifications

T

Truck3capt

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I'm not sure if this is the right spot for this but it seems as close as anywhere else on the forum. What would you guys consider as a minimum for certifications and qualifications for a public sector (fire dept) Fire Marshal? Population of 120,000, plus or minus. Older downtown, large and rapidly growing medical district, one university, mix of older and newer residential developments, and about 20 occupancies that would be considered high rise.

This has been a recent discussion in our bureau and I'd like to see what some people outside of our jurisdiction and state think.
 
Thanks, Mark. I guess I was looking more for the level of experience, and typical certifications in your area or jurisdiction. Would you say that in your area of southern Cal most fire marshals meet the NFPA standard or are they required to by the state fire marshal?
 
Not sure how your dept works,

Does the fire marshal come off the floor or can the dept hire anyone.

Certifications and diplomas are nice I have both. Do I qualify for a fire marshal I would say no. Even with 27 years in prevention.

It also depends on what the position duties are.

Do they just run the place and not do inspections or plan review or have some of those duties.

Also how many people are assigned to the office.

Kind of in general

Experience with inspections

Know the code book

Be able to make the daily tuff decisions

Know how to work with people

Some type of cetts, showing at least they sat through classes

Annual Ongoing training and education
 
Our division has six inspectors that split their time between building safety and inspections and fire investigations. We also have one public education officer. There are two staff (appointed) chiefs, one is the fire marshal and the other is the deputy fire marshal. Historically, these two handled the plan reviews, preliminary project meetings with design professionals and had an extensive working knowledge of the codes our jurisdiction has adopted. They typically were promoted from within the division because our suppression companies and operations people do not perform any inspection duties aside from preplanning target hazards in their districts.

The Fire Marshal typically had at least been a certified inspector 1 and a fire investigator before moving into the position. The current Fire Marshal is neither and has not pursued any additional certification or training. His direct subordinate (deputy fire marshal) has the above certifications, 10 years in the division doing inspections and investigations and is also a certified plans examiner.

Where I'm going with this is that every time the Deputy Chief leaves town and something comes up the fire marshal can't answer he's leaning on me for direction. I'm a licensed architect. My skill set is useful in our division, but I just got here. I'm a little concerned about the liability I could be assuming by giving him direction. I already feel a little overwhelmed with the investigation and inspection duties I already have and my minimal experience at both. I'm also doing plan reviews when the deputy is out of the office.

He is the AHJ in our city and our building and zoning department contacts him with the fire related issues when the deputy chief isn't there. I'm afraid that he's going to make one of those "tough calls" and then dump the ball in my court if something goes wrong. He spends most of his time responding to FOIA requests and "community outreach" and general office administration. My question was aimed at trying to find out If most jurisdictions have a "Working Fire Marshal" or an administrative figurehead.
 
"""" most jurisdictions have a "Working Fire Marshal" or an administrative figurehead."""

I have seen both, but in our area the fire marshals are a working fire marshal

Sounds like either there is no job description of it was not enforced.

With the size and layout, sounds like the fire marshal should know what he is doing, or step aside and get people trained to do the job.

Yes pulling dual duties is hard insp/ inves

Best advice, if you are called for decisions, is lots of documententation of all meeting and have any comments given back to you in writing.
 
Well, the technical expertise is what I've seen most with other Fire Marshals I've met at conferences for Inspection/building safety. Most of the FD/public sector ones were investigators also. I'd expect that at a training conference that offers CEU's to help maintain certifications. I think the only way he'll step aside is if they promote him to the Chief of the department.

As far as documentation goes I've pretty much fallen back into a modified process of what I did when I was doing project administration for the architectural firm. Everything I send out gets his review and a blanket "per my discussion and approval from Division Chief so and so" worked into it somewhere. I also make sure I have the latest cover from his most current TPO report. :)
 
I'm a licensed architect. My skill set is useful in our division, but I just got here. I'm a little concerned about the liability I could be assuming by giving him direction. I already feel a little overwhelmed with the investigation and inspection duties I already have and my minimal experience at both. I'm also doing plan reviews when the deputy is out of the office.
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I too am a licensed architect. As a building official, I too, was concerned about liability. I carry E and O for several million dollars. It is not that much.
 
You should be covered by your city

As long as you work with in your boundaries and apply what is in the book.
 
I don't have time to do anything outside of my work with the city anymore. The cost of maintaining professional liability coverage once I was no longer under the umbrella of a firm was a deterrent also. I think I'm probably covered by the city as long as I don't stray outside of the scope of my job description as an inspector/investigator. I may look into the E and O however. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.
 
Truck3capt said:
Well, the technical expertise is what I've seen most with other Fire Marshals I've met at conferences for Inspection/building safety. Most of the FD/public sector ones were investigators also. I'd expect that at a training conference that offers CEU's to help maintain certifications. I think the only way he'll step aside is if they promote him to the Chief of the department. As far as documentation goes I've pretty much fallen back into a modified process of what I did when I was doing project administration for the architectural firm. Everything I send out gets his review and a blanket "per my discussion and approval from Division Chief so and so" worked into it somewhere. I also make sure I have the latest cover from his most current TPO report. :)
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So does the position have requirements to be there, like a captain or driver on an engine
 
You have to be a captain. The Staff Chief positions are appointed but they have to be on an active Battalion Chief's list for promotion to be considered for appointment. The current fire marshal was a Captain on an engine company (I was on a ladder) and had taken a BC test and was on an active list.
 
Truck3capt said:
You have to be a captain. The Staff Chief positions are appointed but they have to be on an active Battalion Chief's list for promotion to be considered for appointment. The current fire marshal was a Captain on an engine company (I was on a ladder) and had taken a BC test and was on an active list.
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but no other qualifiactions as far as prevention duties, such as done one inspection, know what the code book looks like, anything?

as in a driver postion, driven the truck, set up the ladder, know how to pump,district test, etc.? instead of ok you made grade here are the keys go drive.
 
ICC requirements

FM Certified Fire Marshal (2009/2012 only) 60 multiple-choice questionsPrerequisite Examinations—Current certifications for: Exam fee: $189 Fire Inspector II Open book—2-hour time limit Fire Plans Examiner (equivalent to NFPA 1031 Fire Plans I and Fire Plans II) Legal/Management Module Technology ModuleContent Area % of Total ReferencesDevelop Educational and Prevention Programs 17% 1. 2012 International Fire CodeData Analysis 8% Store ID: (soft-cover) 3400S12; (M) $76.50; (N) $102Fire Investigation 45% Store ID: (loose-leaf) 3400L12; (M) $84.95; (N) $113Media and Public Relations 12% 2. 2011 NFPA 921 Guide for Fire and Explosion InvestigationsInteragency and Legislative 18% 3. Fire and Life Safety Educator, 3rd edition (IFSTA)
 
cda said:
but no other qualifiactions as far as prevention duties, such as done one inspection, know what the code book looks like, anything?as in a driver postion, driven the truck, set up the ladder, know how to pump,district test, etc.? instead of ok you made grade here are the keys go drive.
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No, not one inspection. Not an investigator, no basic cause and origin courses. No plan review background. Not really anything that I'm aware of until he was promoted into this position a year and a half ago.
 
Truck3capt said:
No, not one inspection. Not an investigator, no basic cause and origin courses. No plan review background. Not really anything that I'm aware of until he was promoted into this position a year and a half ago.
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I am talking the position itself, not the person in it

Does the position have any pre requirements?
 
cda said:
I am talking the position itself, not the person in itDoes the position have any pre requirements?
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Sorry about that. Not really other than the requirement to be on an active battalion chiefs list to be considered for any of the staff chiefs jobs in the department. In the sixteen years I've been here they have traditionally been one of the more senior people from within the division. Usually a certified inspector/investigator with several years in the division. They typically have received some OJT training doing plan reviews or they have gotten the ICC cert or taken coursework in that area at the National Fire Academy in Maryland. The rest of the staff chief jobs turn over regularly when a new Chief of Department comes in with a new mayor. It seemed like the fire marshal (division chief) has typically been somewhat insulated from that turnover due to the specialized nature of the position and the amount of time it takes to become anywhere close to proficient.
 
Ok well

That is the system

I see depts where the fire marshal rotates through because that is where the open promotion position is.

Not a good model and musts shows the lack of importance of fire prevention and new construction !!!!!!!!!
 
Unfortunately a lot of fire departments treat their prevention bureaus as the bastard step-children of the department. Unfortunately, I think we're in the same boat given the recent leadership at the top. For many years the inspector/investigators positions were a revolving door for captains that were recently promoted because that is where the opening happened to be. They stayed till an opening on shift came up and they were gone. Right now we have 6 inspectors that all asked to come to the division and have stayed. 4 of us went through the academy together. We're all here for awhile, but we'll also all be leaving at the same time too. Succession planning is lacking in many areas of the fire service.
 
That and civil service systems / unions sometimes dictate how a dept is ran
 
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