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Fire Rating on Doors

V

VIC1958

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Chicago
Scenario: I have a mixed use commercial condo . Owner of building want to open a wall ( full height 8" CMU ) leading from a loading dock/storage area to the adjacent area (separate tenant) Chiropractors office. A door will be separating the two spaces. My question is what does the rating on this door need to be. The new door will not be going directly into the Chiropractor's office but into a shared vestibule. What section in the 2009 IBC do I need to reference?

Thanks
 
is this a true condo?? or just another building ?

what is the rating on the wall they want to open?
 
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Is the wall required to be rated?

Oh, and welcome to the Forum!

cda, I accidentally opened your reply when I was going for mine to edit, I didn't touch anything in yours
 
From what I know and its not that much, doesn't the fire rating of a CMU wall depend on thickness and weather it is fully grouted or not? I am fairly new to the commercial side of the code and all help is appreciated.

steveray said:
Based on the information given.....a 4 hour CMU door should work...To match the wall......And welcome to the forum!
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VIC1958 said:
From what I know and its not that much, doesn't the fire rating of a CMU wall depend on thickness and weather it is fully grouted or not? I am fairly new to the commercial side of the code and all help is appreciated.
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First you need to figure out IF the wall is required to be rated and why.....Could be construction type or occupancy separation or clearance to a property line or half a dozen other reasons.....Then you can determine what the opening might need ...or not
 
Way too many unknowns to zero in on the correct answer. Code edition in effect for the original building may have an impact as well. Layout of the floor plan could have an impact. If the wall is a fire wall for separating the building into compartments for allowable construction area will have an impact. A dance through the building plans is necessary; based on what is found for the existing wall, if door can be allowed, then two options: match the fire rating of the existing wall for the new door opening (code of the day) OR justify by code analysis what provisions of current code apply for fire rating (or not) for the new door opening.
 
fatboy said:
Is the wall required to be rated?Oh, and welcome to the Forum!

cda, I accidentally opened your reply when I was going for mine to edit, I didn't touch anything in yours
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you could have corrected my spelling
 
VIC1958 said:
From what I know and its not that much, doesn't the fire rating of a CMU wall depend on thickness and weather it is fully grouted or not? I am fairly new to the commercial side of the code and all help is appreciated.
Click to expand...
there must be an existing door from the loading dock into the building???

If so see if that door is rated, and the rating!!!!!!!!
 
You will probably need a code modification, because IBC 706.8 prohibits openings in party walls. I'm not sure what they could offer to maintain the safety of the building.
 
cda, I accidentally opened your reply when I was going for mine to edit, I didn't touch anything in yours
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cda, you better check the refrigerator.
 
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Condo schmondo. Condos are created by attorneys to subdivide one property into little pieces of legal paper - altogether irrelevant to the building code. Unless there is a property line running down the center of the concrete block wall, the building code would recognize one property with one building and then focus on the separation required between the S1 occupancy and the B occupancy.

If this were a multiple choice question, the answer would be

A) no fire separation between two occupancies with the same level of moderate hazard (B, F-1, M, S-1).

B) one-hour fire barrier with a 45 minute rated door if the building is equipped with an automatic fire sprinkler system

C) two-hour fire barrier with a 90 minute rated door if the building is not sprinkled

The correct answer is "A". See any version of IBC Table 508.3.3

Double check with the Illinois Plat Act and Condominium Act. That might have more restrictive requirements for condo separation.
 
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Remember when Les Nessman of WKRP in Cincinatti put tape down on the floor to turn his desk area into an "office room"? That's what I think of when attorneys get paid to divide a building into condo spaces.
 
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