Fire service elevator enclosure.

[iggentleman]

I was at a 2009 IBC training workshop earlier this week. We were talking about fire separation strategies for elevator lobbies in high rise buildings and the presenter made a statement that the fire service elevator and the accessible occupant evacuation elevator needed to be in their own separate shafts. Some of us questioned that statement and there was a short discussion. Even though he couldn’t come up with the code citation, the presenter still thought that the special elevators could not share shafts with other elevators.

I’ve looked through the 2009 IBC and could not find this requirement. 3002.2 says a maximum or 4 elevators in a shaft. 3007.2 and 3008.9 only requires the hoistway enclosure to meet section 708. Section 708 addresses the enclosure, fire rating and elevator lobbies but says nothing about requiring a separate shaft.

Am I missing a provision buried somewhere in the IBC? Is there something in ASME 17.1 or another elevator code that would require enclosures separate from other shafts. Has anyone come across this before?

 

[AegisFPE]

I think it would be an ultra-strict interpretation that would consider 3007.2 to prescribe that the subject elevator be in an independent hoistway; one that I do not read in the base 2009 code.

Further, it does not even appear that the accessible elevator in 1007.4 and the fire service elevator of 3007.2 are prohibited from being the same elevator.

 

[peach]

don't think you'll find it in ASME 17, either.

Elevators need to recall to someplace other than the fire floor, and all have fireman controls in them (so they can go where they need to).

 

[iggentleman]

Several of us didn't think the presenters' statement was correct. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

 

[JustReid]

The presenter may have confused the requirement with the additional stair shaft that is required for buildings 420 feet and higher by Section 403.5.2. This would likely be the stair that is accessed from the fire service elevator lobby required by 3007.4.1. I also do not see where there would be a requirement for a completely separate elevator shaft and would think the fire service elevator (required by 403.6.1 for 120 feet and higher) could be dual purpose for normal building occupant use.

 

[gbhammer]

I also do not see where there would be a requirement for a completely separate elevator shaft and would think the fire service elevator (required by 403.6.1 for 120 feet and higher) could be dual purpose for normal building occupant use.

Could and no doubt will be dual purposed.