Firefighters and EERO

[rktect 1]

Well, spring is here and lots of permits are coming in for replacement windows. And after my review comments go out, I get lots of heated phone calls asking what the hell I am thinking in regards to EERO? Why am I making a person who has an existing double hung window replace it with a casement?

It's getting pretty bad too. So I asked one of our firefighters. When was the last time one of our firefighters was up on a ladder, trying to get into a house through a single sash of a double hung window unit? And his answer was not at all surprising. He said, never. Doesn't happen. The firefighter would go up the ladder, stick his axe through the glass, and rip out both sashes and possibly even the frame.

So why am I fighting this 5.7 square foot EERO issue?

Can any of the fire fighters or related personel, tell me when the last time they heard of a fire fighter going through the bottom sash of a double hung unit?

 

[FM William Burns]

The firefighter would go up the ladder, stick his axe through the glass, and rip out both sashes and possibly even the frame.

I can relate to that statement for sure. Regarding access, he is probably correct..... now if we had a victim at the window, we would most likely snatch and grab through the bottom or rip it out if nobody was showing.

 

[Inspector 102]

I teach my crews to remove as much window as possible, ax or no ax. We set up a ladder for secondary egress anytime a crew is working above the first floor and have been practicing firefighter bail-outs. It is quite impressive to see how fast someone can bail out a window with a little practice. Give the wrong circumstances, I can go through a 1 ft. x 1 ft. opening pretty fast too.

 

[cda]

Also the person in the bedroom is going most of the time open the window normally

 

[brudgers]

So why am I fighting this 5.7 square foot EERO issue?

Because if you didn't enforce it there would be little sense in requiring a permit for size for size window replacements.

It's sort of a self justifying bureaucratic feedback loop.

We require a permit because there is the EERO requirement + We enforce the EERO requirement because we require a permit.

Just out of curiosity, do you also require them to enlarge the opening if the can't meet EERO with the existing opening, e.g. the 44" sill height?

 

[TJacobs]

We don't require compliance with EERO when replacing like for like, same size. It's hard enough getting them when they finish their basement.

 

[peach]

it's glazing.. the FD is going to bash it all out.

As long as the entire opening allows passage of a Fire fighter in bunker gear, the configuration of the window really doesn't matter.

Bedroom windows (the only ones we enforce are for Emgergency Egress AND ingress.. guess what.. they can get in).

Attic access is much the same way.. they'll get there without the "access" the IRC required.

Fire departments and building departments need to stop looking at each other as enemies.. rather we are allies.

My view from the bottom.

 

[mtlogcabin]

It is also an escape window and the new impact resistant glass along high wind coastal areas is making a firefighters entry through the window more difficult

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/oct/22/hurricane-resistant-windows-raise-concerns-in-even/

 

[brudgers]

Impact glass in SFR's has been common in Florida for nearly a decade (since March 2002 when the FBC was implemented).

 

[cda]

But

There is no requirement for glass or other similar to be in that required openable area as long as you meet the sq ft once open!??

Is there?????

 

[Yankee]

True, it could be a solid panel. Like a door.

 

[rktect 1]

The reason we decided to start permitting for window replacements was based on the IECC, not EERO. When an existing window is smaller than 5.7, let's say it is 4.9 then we ask for a new 4.9 window.

 

[brudgers]

The reason we decided to start permitting for window replacements was based on the IECC, not EERO. When an existing window is smaller than 5.7, let's say it is 4.9 then we ask for a new 4.9 window.

Just because you can require a permit, doesn't mean you should.

 

[Alias]

We don't require compliance with EERO when replacing like for like, same size. It's hard enough getting them when they finish their basement.

Same here as TJacobs. What little new housing stock we have is 90% M/Us. The existing stick builts are pretty much all non-compliant. I'm estactic when the DIY'er wants to enlarge the window size so it can be used for EERO.

 

[conarb]

I guess if you don't have to require code compliance with emergency egress windows you don't have to mandate code compliance with other worthless codes that you don't believe in, like fire sprinklers, green codes, or state mandated ADA.

 

[Builder Bob]

I don't see where removing a window from a framed opening is a structural change - the window doesn't have to be there for the wall or house to stand ----- I would allow the 4.9 SF window back......... However if the homeowner decided to enlarge the window opening (structural changes-a.k.a framing changes) then the 5.0 or 5.7 Sf window would be required.

JMHO.

 

[peach]

still need natural light and ventilation. Most jurisdictions allow same for same (particularly if you are in any kind of historic district); they won't allow a gridded casement instead of a single hung window (they may not allow, even, a double hung window).