Fitout years later, toilet rooms required for shell prior to fitout?

[AArchitect]

I'm working on a project in Delaware and the client plans to build the core and shell and fit-out the building a few year later when they have more money. They will be the sole occupant so there will be no other tenants. The core and shell will include the exterior assemblies, main electrical rooms, one tele data room to support cameras, egress stairs, and elevator hoist ways (no elevators installed). The question is since this will be sitting empty for years and they will not be using it even for storage does there need to be any toilet rooms, janitors closest, drinking fountains, etc or can that all be built with the fit-out? I don't see anything in code that will say if we can get by with no toilets in this situation. We are producing both the core and shell sets and fit-out sets so the full building is being designed now.

Project into:

• Type IIB
• 2 stories (walls separating double height spaces are not currently scheduled to be closed off besides hoist ways and egress stairs)
• 70k SF
• IBC 2018 Delaware
• Fitout occ. will be primarily F-1 but also have B with some assembly space as accessory occupancy. May change in the years when fitout is started

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Both Pennsylvania and Philadelphia delete the administrative portions of Chapter 1 of the IBC, so you will have to dredge up whatever they use in place of that to find an answer. My state has amended IBC section 111 to add something we call a Certificate of Approval. A CofA is issued for "substantial compliance with the requirements of this code for all completed work that requires a building permit but does not require a certificate of occupancy."

We treat shell buildings as such. If they don't have toilet rooms, may not even have heat and/or ventilation, and there's no occupancy declared or intended, we can't issue a Certificate of Occupancy, so we issue a Certificate of Approval.

If the Pennsylvania (or Philadelphia, if that's where the building will be located) administrative provisions don't allow for something like that, then I would say that the building must be provided with toiler facilities, drinking fountain(s), janitor's slop sink, heat, and ventilation in order to qualify for a certificate of occupancy.

The other choice would be to show those things but not build them. The AHJ won't be able to conduct a final inspection because the work won't be complete. After some period of time (depending on what PA has done to Chapter 1) I would expect the permit to lapse. Then a new permit will have to be taken out when it's time to complete the fit-out. By then, a new code will likely have been adopted, which may or may not require revisions to a design performed in 2025 under an amended version of the 2018 IBC.

 

[AArchitect]

Both Pennsylvania and Philadelphia delete the administrative portions of Chapter 1 of the IBC, so you will have to dredge up whatever they use in place of that to find an answer. My state has amended IBC section 111 to add something we call a Certificate of Approval. A CofA is issued for "substantial compliance with the requirements of this code for all completed work that requires a building permit but does not require a certificate of occupancy."

We treat shell buildings as such. If they don't have toilet rooms, may not even have heat and/or ventilation, and there's no occupancy declared or intended, we can't issue a Certificate of Occupancy, so we issue a Certificate of Approval.

If the Pennsylvania (or Philadelphia, if that's where the building will be located) administrative provisions don't allow for something like that, then I would say that the building must be provided with toiler facilities, drinking fountain(s), janitor's slop sink, heat, and ventilation in order to qualify for a certificate of occupancy.

The other choice would be to show those things but not build them. The AHJ won't be able to conduct a final inspection because the work won't be complete. After some period of time (depending on what PA has done to Chapter 1) I would expect the permit to lapse. Then a new permit will have to be taken out when it's time to complete the fit-out. By then, a new code will likely have been adopted, which may or may not require revisions to a design performed in 2025 under an amended version of the 2018 IBC.

Thanks for the info. The project is in Delaware not in Pennsylvania where the code is modified by individual counties. The version of the code they are using does not modify IBC section 111 so it sounds like i would need to put in some toilets and such. The building will have temp heat so that won't be an issue.

I'm thinking of seeing about classifying the entire building as S-1 since it will be empty in a way to try and minimize any required plumbing fixtures until we build out the rest of the building. The fit-out might not be for 3-5 years so it could be empty for a while.

 

[Sifu]

I look at them like Yankee. We can't begin to "approve" fixture counts without an occupancy classification. If the building is a core/shell, then I review based on proposed future occupancies for what they build, but some things are left to whatever the future occupancy may be when they pull that permit. Many times they do include the toilet room, for which I provide a note that fixture counts can't be determined without an occupancy classification and occupant load and that the required number of fixtures are subject to those determinations. Some AHJ's do a "certificate of completion", basically the same vehicle Yankee describes. Some just do some sort of never-ending TCO until they finish up. IMHO neither a CO nor a TCO should be issued for a core shell building since the O part is not allowed, but I am not the AHJ and stay in my lane.

 

[walker.t]

• Type IIB
• 2 stories (walls separating double height spaces are not currently scheduled to be closed off besides hoist ways and egress stairs)
• 70k SF
• Fitout occ. will be primarily F-1 but also have B with some assembly space as accessory occupancy. May change in the years when fitout is started

I'm thinking of seeing about classifying the entire building as S-1

You’ll need to identify an occupancy so that plan review can confirm that the construction type and sprinklered/non-sprinklered status of the building supports the allowable area. Behind the scenes you will have designed the building to support the change of use that will happen when they finish the building - recognizing that there may be changes in the code between now and then.