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Flame spread ratings for high-speed fabric doors - required?

D

Dave Bender

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
8
Location
Michigan
We use high-speed fabric doors for fork truck operations, combined with steel fire doors for wall rating, between production rooms and traffic corridors.

At last code review we were told to provide flame spread rating for the fabric door as interior wall finish per IBC Sec 803.1.

I can't really disagree with his logic, due to fabric exposure on one side or the other of the separation wall.

I have checked with supplier, manufacturer, door manufacturers association, other engineers/architects, other jurisdictions, and FM.

Used all over the place, but no one has had this come up.

I have not been able to find a manufacturer that tests or rates their high-speed doors for this.

We are looking for variance, precedent, justification why this has not been addressed anywhere else.

Meanwhile, we are also pursuing ASTM testing with manufacturer (Rite-Hite, Fastrax-XL door) as last resort.

I expect them to be reluctant to do this - no test keeps the status quo, failed test will make them stick out.

Advice?
 
Which edition of I can?

And what is "At last code review " in your terms ?

Annual inspection, remodel

Insurance inspection?
 
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Mr. Moderator sir,

May I please respectfully request that you move this Topic

to the "Commercial Building Codes" thread, for more

exposure & accuracy of the posting [ i.e. - putting the right

letter in the right mailbox ].

Thanks ! :cool:



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Not sure since it is not Attached directly to the wall if that section applies

INTERIOR WALL AND CEILING FINISH. The exposed interior surfaces of buildings, including but not limited to: fixed or movable walls and partitions; toilet room privacy partitions; columns; ceilings; and interior wainscoting, paneling or other finish applied structurally or for decoration, acoustical correction, surface insulation, structural fire resistance or similar purposes, but not including trim.

A material that is applied to ceilings as well as walls, columns, partitions (including the privacy partitions in bathrooms that could pose a significant threat in larger bathrooms if unrated) and other vertical interior surfaces whether fixed or movable. The application of this material may be for structural, decorative, acoustical, structural fire resistance and other similar reasons. Trim, such as baseboard, door or window casing, is not considered interior wall and ceiling finish. Interior wall and ceiling finish is regulated by Section 803.
 
Dave Bender said:
We use high-speed fabric doors for fork truck operations, combined with steel fire doors for wall rating, between production rooms and traffic corridors.At last code review we were told to provide flame spread rating for the fabric door as interior wall finish per IBC Sec 803.1.

I can't really disagree with his logic, due to fabric exposure on one side or the other of the separation wall.

I have checked with supplier, manufacturer, door manufacturers association, other engineers/architects, other jurisdictions, and FM.

Used all over the place, but no one has had this come up.

I have not been able to find a manufacturer that tests or rates their high-speed doors for this.

We are looking for variance, precedent, justification why this has not been addressed anywhere else.

Meanwhile, we are also pursuing ASTM testing with manufacturer (Rite-Hite, Fastrax-XL door) as last resort.

I expect them to be reluctant to do this - no test keeps the status quo, failed test will make them stick out.

Advice?
Click to expand...
Like this:::

http://www.ritehite.com/en/AM/Products/Industrial-Doors/High-Speed-Doors/FasTrax-XL

Seems like more a piece of equipment
 
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Dave Bender,

Have you contacted Hormann-Flexon, LLC ?.........Another

High Speed Door manufacturer \ supplier \ installer.

They have offices in Burgettstown, PA, (800) 365-3667,

or (724) 385-9150.

http://www.hormann-flexon.com/



Their web site states that they are available 365 days a year

to call and speak with their technical staff [ < ------- ??? ].

Could rated "Fire Curtain Assemblies" be used on these high

speed doors [ RE: NFPA 80, 3.3.61 & 3.3.62........Also, see

Ch. 20, `13 Edition ] ?

Also, ...instead of fabric type doors, can **Dave Bender**

use metal type doors ?



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Last edited by a moderator:
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**Dave Bender**,

I briefly read thru some of the CSI Specs. off of the Hormann-Flexon web site

...for their various types of doors..........None of the door panels had any type

of flame spread rating on them, however, some of their door panels DID

provide a temperature range for different applications.

Have you considered using metal panels, or a rated "Fire Curtain Assembly" ?

Also, ...if you haven't already, have you had a "sit down meeting" with the

AHJ BO & FCO to discuss options ?



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north star said:
@ ~ @ ~ @



**Dave Bender**,

I briefly read thru some of the CSI Specs. off of the Hormann-Flexon web site

...for their various types of doors..........None of the door panels had any type

of flame spread rating on them, however, some of their door panels DID

provide a temperature range for different applications.

Have you considered using metal panels, or a rated "Fire Curtain Assembly" ?

Also, ...if you haven't already, have you had a "sit down meeting" with the

AHJ BO & FCO to discuss options ?



@ ~ @ ~ @
Click to expand...
Just checking

I take it these are in addition to rated assemblies in the rated wall?
 
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cda,

As I briefly read thru some of the High Speed Door web sites

and their literature, ...these type door assemblies are installed

in to various wall types, not just rated ones........To answer

your question, ..."Yes", these are in addition to the rated metal

type door assemblies in the OP.

In reviewing some more information related to Fire Curtains,

I am not sure that they would be durable enough for very high

repetition use.

Another option may be to treat these door fabrics like

a rated corridor and a restroom opening [ i.e. - no rated

doors ], rather, ...fire rate everything around the opening.

This way, both sides of the High Speed Door fabrics

will not have a different occupancy group assigned to them.



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Many thanks for the welcomes and the replies! I have not participated in a forum before, and did not expect such prompt responses.

Good suggestions - I'll try to catch up to them here.

2012 IBC is current.

This code review is for a modification project - larger wall opening using the similar fabric door and steel door combination, so not like-for-like replacement.

No records of previous code reviews for similar installations in our facility to use as precendents.

And those installations preceded the current code reviewer, so I can't draw on his previous approvals.

I have had one session with the AHJ reviewer, and I commented on the absence of flame spread info in the fabric door industry.

He considers my options are to document the door, test the door, or replace the door with a rated door.

He mentioned manufacturers that he has used to meet criteria.

I have since checked those, but have only found flame spread rating provided once, and for an unrelated application:

http://www.international-door.com/hoistup-fabric-doors.php

Their comparable high-speed door does not advertise flame spread rating:

http://www.international-door.com/rollupfabricdoors.php

But I feel that I need to widen my research before challenging that again.

The steel rolling door on hall side of opening meets our fire separation rating, which maintains integrity of the corridor.

The production is for healthcare products, and the fabric doors on the room side of the opening are well-suited for the cleanability protocols.

We have not yet tried to substitute a steel high-speed door for the operational door, but I expect that would be a hard sell to our operations folks.

We already have sprinkler coverage in the facility, which is taken into consideration in determining class of flame spread rating.

Code section does not allow for sprinklers as substitution for flame spread, as best as I can see.

Section 806 can re-categorize this as "decorative materials" if less than 10% of room surface, but that still requires flame spread rating to a different test procedure.

"Not attached to the wall" is an interesting observation above.

AHJ reviewer is keying into "...movable walls and partitions..."

And I do find it difficult to disagree with that.

A wall covering fabric right next to the door opening would require the flame spread.

But I am mystified how the entire industry has worked around this.

However, burden of proof is up to me, not to the AHJ reviewer.
 
Good morning! On Sun I posted a reply to the number of good comments from Sat. Postings don't show until reviewed by the moderator? Haven't seen it yet, and I didn't keep a copy before posting.
 
Flammability is not the same as flame spread rating.

My first thought was that the fabric is more akin to 'decorations' than 'wall finishes'.

That said, most flammable decorations - fabric, paper, etc. - could be treated post-manufacture to be flame retardant. That would likely satisfy the Code Official.

And Welcome to the Forum Dave Bender.
 
I still do not see why it even is a question!!!

1. You have a rated wall.

2. You have an opening in the rated wall.

3. You are providing a rated door to protect that opening.

4. You are just adding a high speed door, that is used on one side of this rated protected opening.

****** no problem********

You could have racked storage of tires on both sides of this opening and you would be legal!!!!!

You are just adding a fabric door to drive through.
 
Dave Bender said:
Good morning! On Sun I posted a reply to the number of good comments from Sat. Postings don't show until reviewed by the moderator? Haven't seen it yet, and I didn't keep a copy before posting.
Click to expand...
Just to avoid some spamming
 
Thanks, JBI!

You are correct.

Sec 806.1 implies that materials defined as "interior wall and ceiling finish" per Sec 202 can be considered "decorative materials" if less than 10% of wall or ceiling area.

Decorative materials need to meet flame propagation criteria per NFPA 701, so we still have some criteria to meet.

I have also been investigating flame spread coatings - but even if we find one, durability of coatings on highly used flexible fabrics in rolling doors may be suspect.

We are keeping looking, however.
 
cda's comment on tire rack storage is intriguing.

Consideration of this fabric door in the amounts of potential flammables stored in the area?
 
Dave Bender said:
cda's comment on tire rack storage is intriguing.Consideration of this fabric door in the amounts of potential flammables stored in the area?
Click to expand...
Ask the nice plan reviewer, if I had a big American flag hanging over the opening, would he make you have it a fire retardant flag???
 
cda said:
I still do not see why it even is a question!!!1. You have a rated wall.

2. You have an opening in the rated wall.

3. You are providing a rated door to protect that opening.

4. You are just adding a high speed door, that is used on one side of this rated protected opening.

****** no problem********

You could have racked storage of tires on both sides of this opening and you would be legal!!!!!

You are just adding a fabric door to drive through.
Click to expand...
Dave,

So this is the set up you have????

Just need to make sure, so you get the correct answer
 
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