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GEC Splice

ICE

ICE

Oh Well
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
12,925
Location
California
A contractor is insisting that this crimp is listed for use as an irreversible splice in a grounding electrode conductor. My office manager has no experience with electrical and questions my correction to eliminate this splice. If any of you can provide an opinion, I would appreciate that.

 
ICE said:
A contractor is insisting that this crimp is listed for use as an irreversible splice in a grounding electrode conductor. My office manager has no experience with electrical and questions my correction to eliminate this splice. If any of you can provide an opinion, I would appreciate that.
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It is an irreversible compression crimp.
 
Gregg Harris said:
It is an irreversible compression crimp.
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I haven't tried but I think I can remove it without too much effort and without damage to the conductors. I contacted the manufacturer and they also describe it as irreversible. When I asked them by what criteria do they consider this crimp to be irreversible, they said that it would require the use of tools to remove it. The same applies to a split bolt. They then told me that the crimp is listed to UL standard 467. 467 is "Grounding and bonding equipment"

It isn't that I can't be wrong. I just haven't seen this used for a GEC splice in all the years that I have been doing this.
 
ICE said:
I haven't tried but I think I can remove it without too much effort and without damage to the conductors. I contacted the manufacturer and they also describe it as irreversible. When I asked them by what criteria do they consider this crimp to be irreversible, they said that it would require the use of tools to remove it. The same applies to a split bolt. They then told me that the crimp is listed to UL standard 467. 467 is "Grounding and bonding equipment"It isn't that I can't be wrong. I just haven't seen this used for a GEC splice in all the years that I have been doing this.
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Newer product. It is UL listed under T/B 54720 is the part # UL document KDER.E3060
 
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It is hard to tell but is the actual grounding electrode conductor cut and spliced? The others are bonding conductors. What kind of install is this? Why are there bonding bushings. I must admit I have never seen a setup like that. It looks like a jb under the meter but what are the other conductors in the box and how do they get to the panel. Is the conduit on the bottom left of the JB the service conductors???
 
Yes Dennis the GEC is spliced. This is a 125 amp residential service upgrade. The splice is in a jb under the panel board. The conductors come in the back of the cabinet which is partially recessed in an exterior wall. No the conduit is not the service entrance conductors. This is a top feed.

From what I can tell, the C-crimp is listed for splicing a GEC.
 
It seems to work well enough with stranded wire.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/13170747274/ [/URL]

They're not all that proficient with a knife.

It looks like one can pack quite a bit of wire in there.

13170594143_3daaf0ab69_o.jpg


http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/13170594143/

What they don't look like is that a crimp tool was used.
 
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jar546 said:
1) I too question 3 conductors under 1 splice2) I question it's use on solid copper wire

That is what you need to ask the manufacturer.
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I called them on Friday. They provided the link to UL and proof that the crimp is listed to 467. When I started asking questions, I was put on hold for a senior engineer. After a few minutes I was told that the person that could answer my questions was on the road to a code making panel. They said that he would call me. He didn't. I will try again on Monday. And bring you the answers.

This chart is from T&B This is the pdf: http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?a=tiff2pdf&f=shared/inst/ta00628-tb2.tif



An inspector would need this chart to approve the crimps. If the crimp is used on an ungrounded conductor there is insulation that obscures the color code and the witness marks from the crimp tool.

The installation instructions do not mention witness marks from a crimping tool. So how else is one to know other than marks from pliers?

A #4 GEC could not be spliced with any of the crimps listed on this chart.

The last entry on the chart raises questions. For starters, why is it there? The same crimp is shown above with a #6 main and a #6 branch but it is duplicated at the bottom with the added notation that both are solid conductors.
 
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This is a web site that sells the crimps.

54720 Thomas & Betts CU C-Tap, 4AWG, BROWN, 33Part #: 273X564 Model #: 54720

Thomas and Betts makes this 54720 compression C-Taps for permanent pig tailing, two-way splicing or tapping to an unbroken continuous main. Die color-coded brown, use this C-Tap on #4 AWG stranded main wire, and #12 AWG solid and stranded - #4 AWG stranded branch wire. Use with T&B lugs assures high conductivity, low resistance and high pullout values. Use the 272X128 BROWN 33 coded die with the 272X100 Insulated head manual hydraulic crimper to properly install this C-Tap.

Non-GSA Schedule
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Tomorrow I will ask them a bunch of questions. Primarily I want the listing and conclusive installation instructions. I cant see how it would work as a butt splice with different gauge wire. The combinations are such that the main can be #4 with a #12 branch.
 
I believe the fitting has an inner sleeve that is removable. It stays in with the smaller sizes so the crimp works well but it is removed on the larger sizes. Just a guess
 
The T&B engineer clued me in today....sorta. The crimp is for lap splices only. It is listed for solid and stranded wire. Two conductors is all that are allowed. There is no inner sleeve that is removable. He didn't know why the 54720 is placed twice on the installation chart. He didn't know why footnote four is there.

He's going to get back to me.
 
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