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Go up to go down - 1016.1

L

lifeinbeats

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Messages
3
Location
NYC
So I have sort of a random question and can't seem to find any precedents. I am designing a multi-tenant, two story commercial building in NYC. A gym (PCE) tenant will occupy part of the first floor and the whole of the second floor. The other tenant is to be retail/restaurant. Since this is NYC, of course only one of the sides of the building opens to a public way (the front facade). So all of my exits need to be on this facade. I have two exits from the retail/restaurant occupancy. And I have one exit enclosure stairway that discharges directly to the exterior from the second, in addition to an exit enclosure that discharges into a lobby (so, two means of egress from the second floor).

What I'm trying to do is provide as much frontage to the retail/restaurant, while giving over half of the first floor to the gym tenant. What this does is wraps the gym occupancy around the retail to the back of the building. Now I need to figure out how to provide a second means of egress from the gym on the first floor, since I screwed myself with my horizontal separation by lengthening this thing out. I can do this by providing a corridor from the back of the building to the street, but this is a lot of wasted circulation space.

Without making this too complicated, my question is this: Can my second means of egress from the first floor (grade level), go up an unenclosed staircase in the back of the building to the second floor, over to a rated exit enclosure at the front of the building and go down to discharge directly to the exterior? Exception 3 in 1016.1 may allow for this, although I don't think that's the intent. For the life of me, I can't find anywhere else in the code that strictly prohibits travelling away from the level of exit discharge and back again, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

Thanks in advance!
 
There is always a first

If it came to me, I would say no

Check the next couple of days for more answers

If you Paul you could post a simple floor plan that would better help answr the question

I take it back the building is sprinkled
 
Can you do an "exit enclosure" back through the gym

Once again wasted space but?
 
cda said:
Can you do an "exit enclosure" back through the gym Once again wasted space but?
Click to expand...
I can, essentially making a "C" shape around the Retail tenant. But it does waste a lot of square footage and I'm not sure the gym tenant is going to want to pay for the added area, so we'll effectively have to shrink the retail tenant. Basically just checking in to see if the other solution is possible. It could be such a simple solution, too, since we are already providing the unenclosed stair in the back.

I loathe unloaded corridors...
 
I guess you can contact the ahj, to see if it flys past them??

If you are in a basement you sometimes have to go up stairs!

Exceptions 3 and 4 address the special concerns for an open stairway between floors other than those covered by Exceptions 1 and 2 and the exterior stairway provisions in Section 1026. These stairways are considered exit access stairways, rather than exit stairways, so travel distance includes measuring down the stairs and to an exit door to the outside or the door to an enclosed exit stairway—similar to mezzanines. The measurement for the travel distance must be from the most remote point, down the exit access stairway and out of the building to the beginning of the exit discharge.
 
If it were an exit enclosure, NOT A CORRIDOR, I don't see how I could deny the concept....How are you handling exit discharge separation?

1015.2.1 Two exits or exit access doorways.

Where two exits or exit access doorways are required from any portion of the exit access, the exit doors or exit access doorways shall be placed a distance apart equal to not less than one-half of the length of the maximum overall diagonal dimension of the building or area to be served measured in a straight line between exit doors or exit access doorways. Interlocking or scissor stairs shall be counted as one exit stairway.

Exceptions:

1. Where interior exit stairways are interconnected by a 1-hour fire-resistance-rated corridor conforming to the requirements of Section 1018, the required exit separation shall be measured along the shortest direct line of travel within the corridor.

2. Where a building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2, the separation distance of the exit doors or exit access doorways shall not be less than one-third of the length of the maximum overall diagonal dimension of the area served.
 
kilitact said:
What code section would you use to deny this design?
Click to expand...
101.1.1.1.1.1.1.11 because I do not like it??

Would have to see a floor plan first.

I think there are more problems, with this, than the second exit.

"""in addition to an exit enclosure that discharges into a lobby"""

Where is the main exit for the gym?

"""Can my second means of egress from the first floor (grade level), go up an unenclosed staircase in the back of the building to the second floor, over to a rated exit enclosure at the front of the building and go down to discharge directly to the exterior? """" There has to be something wrong with this..

Need to see a floor plan
 
@ ~ @ ~ @

lifeinbeats,

By proposing to route occupants upstairs to another

compliant MOE from the 1st Floor, ...will your 2

stairways from the 2nd Floor accommodate the

increased Occupant Loading from the 1st Floor ?

Also, ...agree with **kilitact**, ...what about your

overall travel distance ?



@ ~ @ ~ @
 
And I have one exit enclosure stairway that discharges directly to the exterior from the second, in addition to an exit enclosure that discharges into a lobby (so, two means of egress from the second floor).
Click to expand...
This design meets 1027?

I don't see your design that much different than some assembly balcony or stadium seating where an occupant has to travel in an upwards direction to a higher level to access the stairs or ramps to reach the lower levels and egress discharge.
 
In order to create an exit enclosure within the gym, it would not necessarily start at the back of the gym...

It needs to start at or near the end of the allowable travel distance from the most remote part of the gym.

Does that help?
 
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