• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Grain Silo for Brewery - Fire Rated!?

J

jpowell

Bronze Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
44
Location
McCall, ID
Hi All,

Need a little help here. What is your opinion on needing 2-HR rated exterior walls on this grain silo. It seems silly, because it is a silo - it is made of metal and there is no good way to create a rated wall.

Here is the situation. Small local brewery is doing a small expansion. As part of this they want to install a small grain silo. S-1. It is a separate structure, but is close to the lot line and the new/existing structure. Areas are small enough that they can consider the whole site as one building and don't need fire separation between the structures.

Where I need opinions is the distance to the lot line. The silo is about 1' from the lot line. Per 602 this would require 2-HR exterior walls within 5'. (2012 IBC) Also possibly relevant is a 16' access easement from the property line, so no structures will be built closer than that.

Silo stats:

10' diameter

79 sf

26' tall

2042 cf

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
Edit: I believe I am going to approach this silo as a piece of equipment. It is being purchased from a brewery equipment supply, and is financed by the bank as equipment.
 
jpowell said:
What is your opinion on needing 2-HR rated exterior walls on this grain silo. It seems silly, because it is a silo - it is
Click to expand...
Silly? Dust fires....Dust explosions are a frequent hazard in ...in grain elevators, and silos....

080620.MN.grain.elevator.jpg
 
Work with the local fire department. Can you come up with a way to control the "dust" in a partially full, or partially empty (depending on which way you look at it) Silo.

With mitigation they may allow it to be less than 2 hour..
 
Greetings,

I recall back in the 80's there being several really bad silo explosions. Remember too that there are specific NEC requirements for Class III locations for the electric install.

BSSTG
 
It is being purchased from a brewery equipment supply,
Click to expand...
Then the concerns Mark has raised should be addressed by the manufacturer. I agree the FD should be involved.



Also possibly relevant is a 16' access easement from the property line,
Click to expand...
On an adjacent property? What type of easement and who is it for. A utility easement that may require excavations in the future could undermine the silo foundation.. You have a few unanswered questions that should be addressed.
 
mtlogcabin said:
You have a few unanswered questions that should be addressed.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Thanks everyone for the quick input. I will be speaking with the fire department soon.
 
well they stick them in some of the bars I have been in??

There has been disscussion here on brew bars before, maybe do a search
 
Zoning usually requires a set back from the PL, your 1-ft from the PL with a structure? Do you have zoning requirements?
 
Breweries would typically be S-2 unless they are distilling or making very high gravity beers. I see this as equipment. Would need to respect setbacks.
 
+ & + & +

What is considered to the higher hazard in this application ?

A piece of equipment that will contain xxx amount of product,

or a structure that contains xxx amount of product.



+ & + & +
 
jpowell said:
Edit: I believe I am going to approach this silo as a piece of equipment. It is being purchased from a brewery equipment supply, and is financed by the bank as equipment.
Click to expand...
If it's now classified as equipment it would not be subject to the county taxation. If it was considered to be a structure, I don't see how it can be allowed to be 1-ft from the PL unless you have a zero lot lines in your zoning?

Will a sprinkler system allow it to be closer to the PL?
 
Okay I will have an existing one relocating to the edge of town and this can go a number of different ways. It will be within a new railpark along with the regional offices next to it. Do not know the final size yet. What do we classify the a stand alone silo and what about a grain elevator?

A stand alone silo would probably be a "U" occupancy

AGRICULTURAL BUILDING. A structure designed and constructed to house farm implements, hay, grain, poultry, livestock or other horticultural products. This structure shall not be a place of human habitation or a place of employment where agricultural products are processed, treated or packaged, nor shall it be a place used by the public.

312.1 General.

Buildings and structures of an accessory character and miscellaneous structures not classified in any specific occupancy shall be constructed, equipped and maintained to conform to the requirements of this code commensurate with the fire and life hazard incidental to their occupancy. Group U shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Agricultural buildings

No fire suppression regardless of size

Now processing is an H-2 according to 415.8

[F] 415.8.1 Combustible dusts, grain processing and storage.

The provisions of Sections 415.8.1.1 through 415.8.1.6 shall apply to buildings in which materials that produce combustible dusts are stored or handled. Buildings that store or handle combustible dusts shall comply with the applicable provisions of NFPA 61, NFPA 85, NFPA 120, NFPA 484, NFPA 654, NFPA 655 and NFPA 664, and the International Fire Code.

[F] 415.8.1.1 Type of construction and height exceptions.

Buildings shall be constructed in compliance with the height and area limitations of Table 503 for Group H-2; except that where erected of Type I or II construction, the heights and areas of grain elevators and similar structures shall be unlimited, and where of Type IV construction, the maximum building height shall be 65 feet (19 812 mm) and except further that, in isolated areas, the maximum building height of Type IV structures shall be increased to 85 feet (25 908 mm).

[F] 415.8.1.2 Grinding rooms.

Every room or space occupied for grinding or other operations that produce combustible dusts shall be enclosed with fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section 707 or horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance with Section 711, or both. The fire-resistance rating of the enclosure shall be not less than 2 hours where the area is not more than 3,000 square feet (279 m2), and not less than 4 hours where the area is greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2).

[F] 415.8.1.3 Conveyors.

Conveyors, chutes, piping and similar equipment passing through the enclosures of rooms or spaces shall be constructed dirt tight and vapor tight, and be of approved noncombustible materials complying with Chapter 30.

[F] 415.8.1.4 Explosion control.

Explosion control shall be provided as specified in the International Fire Code, or spaces shall be equipped with the equivalent mechanical ventilation complying with the International Mechanical Code.

[F] 415.8.1.5 Grain elevators.

Grain elevators, malt houses and buildings for similar occupancies shall not be located within 30 feet (9144 mm) of interior lot lines or structures on the same lot, except where erected along a railroad right-of-way.

The regional manager is asking what we want because normally corporate has placed these facilities in the middle of wide open spaces and they are not looked at very closely. I am thinking an FPE may need to get on board to advise the design staff based on the intended operation now and future
 
It is a farm and feed store with regional corporate offices located on the same site. The ywill be load various locally grown grains and shipping them by rail for processing. This is the current site not including the regional offices
attachment.php
attachment.php
Current f

View attachment 1245

View attachment 1246

View attachment 1245

View attachment 1246

/monthly_2015_11/cennex2.JPG.b9e954d2a224040edbecbc30f1247080.JPG

/monthly_2015_11/Cennex.JPG.125f575eff2a20643987ad84346da680.JPG
 
mtlogcabin said:
It is a farm and feed store with regional corporate offices located on the same site. The ywill be load various locally grown grains and shipping them by rail for processing. This is the current site not including the regional offices

attachment.php
attachment.php
Current f
Click to expand...
The buildings themselves what ever occupancy they fall under.

The silos appear to be "U",,,

But have to meet other provisions required for the hazard and

Group U occupancies are subject to the same structural loadings such as snow loads as other occupancies. Section 312.1 establishes that occupancies classified as utility and miscellaneous structures shall be constructed, equipped and maintained to conform to the code requirements that are commensurate with the fire and life hazards incidental to their occupancy. The structural design requirements for roofs are the minimum deemed necessary to withstand such elements. Allowing construction of a building with an accessory occupancy that could reasonably be expected to collapse under the snow loads known to prevail in a certain area is not in the best interest of public safety.
 
When I was a kid and stuck in Illinois, we referred to these as grain elevators. A silo was on a farm and held sillage. Sillage stinks but animals gobble it up. Every so often a grain elevator would disappear in a cloud of dust.
 
I'm still in Illannoys, and that's still a grain elevator...

mt: If it's just grain storage, I wouldn't get too carried away as long as they meet the prescriptive req's that you already posted. If they're grinding grain, then I'd look a little closer (that's where you get explosive dust). Where most of these facilities create trouble for themselves is when they build wooden "buildings" adjacent to or attached to the grain bins - a place for trucks to pull through and load/unload, roofs to keep electric controls and/or employees out of the rain, etc. Those are the places the dust will collect, and then a farmer tosses a smoke out the window of the grain truck and BOOM.

A steel bin, by itself, on a concrete foundation, is almost zero hazard.
 
$ * $ * $

Does the product \ sillage inside those Grain Silos;

whether they are in a concrete or metal type container,

go thru any type of exothermic heating process ?

$ * $ * $
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top