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Guardrail square tube as conduit?

R

Robert

Registered User
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
341
Location
Pinole, CA
Hello. I am in CA and am designing an interior metal guardrail which will have a pancake box mounted to a hollowed plate for a wall sconce. I am wondering if we can use the actual metal square tube (1") portion of the guardrail to run the wiring in? There will be 90 degree turns and welded. It will be a very short run. Other than the difficulty of fishing wires, can this suffice for conduit? If so, does it need to be sheathed as in Romex or will unsheathed work? Thank you.
 
Can you run electrical in the steel framing yes

Is the square tube an approved conduit no.

you will need to run the wire in code approved conduit, unless the sheathing is approved to be run in steel without conduit.
 
Can you run electrical in the steel framing yesIs the square tube an approved conduit no.

you will need to run the wire in code approved conduit, unless the sheathing is approved to be run in steel without conduit.
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Robert:

I don't necessarily agree with this, talk to your local building department, Mark's advice is probably correct for a "by-the-book" inspector but lots of departments and even inspectors within departments use a "reasonableness" standard, as long as you meet the intent of the code to protect the wiring they will accept it, it appears that you are intending to do just that. If they don't want to accept what you propose demand that they cite a code section.
 
Would AC cable be a problem as long as the handrail was effectively grounded?
 
Would AC cable be a problem as long as the handrail was effectively grounded?
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Tiger he doesn't need AC cable, he doesn't even need Romex cable, plastic coated wires are sufficient inside steel tubing, although I don't see why he doesn't use Romex. That's what we do when we have carriage lamps on top of newels.
 
There's no way in the world you're going to be able to pull BX through the guard rail he's talking about. He stated in his 1st post that it has 90° corners, it would even be difficult to pull THHN wires through it. While in the electrical cords a clear that you cannot weld on conduit I believe that's really because of the heat that would be transferred to the wires inside of it. In this case as long as the assembly was fully welded up prior to the wire being run I agree with Conarb and believe that most reasonable AHJs would accept it.
 
Everyone in the construction industry and building maintenance knows what electrical conduit looks like. Running electrical wires inside a steel tube/pipe that is not identified as an electrical conduit could be a death sentence to a worker
 
Everyone in the construction industry and building maintenance knows what electrical conduit looks like. Running electrical wires inside a steel tube/pipe that is not identified as an electrical conduit could be a death sentence to a worker
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What do you expect him to do, run a round conduit up next to the square railing newel to get to the top when he can put the wiring inside the existing "square newel post" to get up to his wall sconce? This is a railing not a wall to bury the wiring in.
 
If this is allowed, shouldn't the tube that the wires are in be permanently marked somehow? In a guard/handrail is not somewhere your typical remodeler expects to find wiring. So when he cuts it out with his sawzall to replace it (when it's damaged or when the owner inevitably decides it's time for a new one), bad things will happen.
 
If this is allowed, shouldn't the tube that the wires are in be permanently marked somehow? In a guard/handrail is not somewhere your typical remodeler expects to find wiring. So when he cuts it out with his sawzall to replace it (when it's damaged or when the owner inevitably decides it's time for a new one), bad things will happen.
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Kinda like cutting into the wall when you don't know where the wires are....Sawzaller beware..I could allow a cable, but most likely not THHN. And I guess I would ASK them to put some kind of label on the E panel?

If it is wired properly it will trip before anyone gets hurt. I had a kid cut an elevator feeder with a sawzall. Blade didn't make it, but saw and kid were OK....
 
You cut the power when cutting in wallsYou cannot foresee or imagine wires in a Guard.
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No you don't' date=' we remodel buildings all the time with the power activated, how are you going to plug in your equipment?There are all kinds of railing systems with wiring in the rails.View attachment 2200

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CA ( and others ),

In your pic., ...is that system of railing an approved type of conduit where conductors

are installed ?.........If so, approved by whom ?

According to Article 310.10, `14 NEC, ..."310.10 now covers “Uses Permitted” with

the following text: “The conductors described in 310.104 shall be permitted for

use in any of the wiring methods covered in Chapter 3 and as specified in their

respective tables or as permitted elsewhere in this Code.”

Since square steel tubing is not listed as an approved type of conduit, the install

of conductors or wiring assemblies would not be approved, however, ...according

to Article 376 - Wireways, ...if one or more sides of the square steel tubing were

removed and a detachable, mounting cover were to be constructed, then the

square tubing could be used..........The conductors or wire assemblies could be

placed in the wireway when the cover is removed.

FWIW, ...I agree that there is a level of reasonable expectation of safety to approved

type of identified electrical conduits, whereas, that level of "reasonable expectation"

is not present for non-identified components being used as conduit.

Regarding the OP, I would not approve the use of steel square tubing as described

& intended.

Please come up with another alternative !

Others ?

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Thanks for all the feedback...I've been away so have not had a chance to respond. Lots of good opinions. We would like to fish the wiring vertically inside a 3" square wood post, then a 90 into the metal tube, then another 90 up to the pancake box. Guardrail will be made up prior to the wires being installed.,,,probably THNN as the romex will be too fat and stiff, but again, probably the AHJ call and an AMMR form. Interesting thought about low voltage.... If we were to keep the transformer in an accessible location, then maybe the conduit issue would be mute?
 
Ice - If I am not mistaken, the picture shows low voltage lighting.

Besides not being a listed conduit, I would be concerned that the insulation could be damaged at the welded connection. Just because the weld looks pretty on the outside doesn't mean it is smooth on the inside.
 
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